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Double Bass Quality Chinese Basses

#61
The name may be familiar to some here, but I must add that Johannes Kohr basses (made in China, but marketed under this name) are great basses as well. I bought my hybrid in 2003 and to this day, after many hard winters and extreme weather scenarios, it is still solid with no splits, cracks, or seam issues. It has gotten better and better with age and playing and seems very solid. I bought it from Bob Beerman in Greensboro, NC, a name that those from this region will be very familiar with. He is a top-shelf guy and a fantastic resource for us double bass players in NC and surrounding areas. Not sure if he still stocks these basses, but they are fantastic, and I trust whatever Bob stocks. My Kohr was over 2K, but some of their all-plywood models can be had for closer to 1K if memory serves.
 
#63
I am extremely suspicious of the whole Chinese bass concept. With these anonymous basses coming from who knows where in China, made of who knows what, the only recourse is to buy from someone who will back up the product here in the USA.

My Eastman guitar is outstanding... for the money.
My Palatino electric upright is outstanding... for the money.

Neither would hold a candle, however, to an equivalent American product.

I'd be more willing to buy a used Chinese bass after seeing if it behaves well... sort of like getting an adult dog from the humane society rather than buying a puppy whose genetic dispositions turn out to be other than pleasant.

Ideally, I'd rather own an American made instrument. I think we could use the jobs here.
 
#64
spoonido said:
I am extremely suspicious of the whole Chinese bass concept. With these anonymous basses coming from who knows where in China, made of who knows what, the only recourse is to buy from someone who will back up the product here in the USA.

My Eastman guitar is outstanding... for the money.
My Palatino electric upright is outstanding... for the money.

Neither would hold a candle, however, to an equivalent American product.

I'd be more willing to buy a used Chinese bass after seeing if it behaves well... sort of like getting an adult dog from the humane society rather than buying a puppy whose genetic dispositions turn out to be other than pleasant.

Ideally, I'd rather own an American made instrument. I think we could use the jobs here.
Click to expand...

I agree it would be good to keep the jobs here but I don't see how you can compete. My $1200 Eastman mandolin kills anything for the price made in North America (or anywhere else for that matter). The down side is (and I'm not accusing Eastman of this because I don't know) slave labor. We're far too comfortable with the fact that the majority of cheap offshore goods are made by people who have been kept in poverty and have no choice but to work for slave wages.
 
#67
Actually, I highly doubt slave labor is as prevalent as it used to be. Take Eastman for example, and this is based on what the owner of one of the only music shops here said.

The workers in Eastman have individual working spaces and are in charge of producing a part, let's say a bridge or scroll. What's more, the workers are paid based on their workmanship. If a part is done wrongly, the worker has to pay for the bridge. Thus, if a worker wanted to earn, he would carve the parts to the best of his ability.

And because they work on individual parts, they are able to work quickly on them. I think most of us assume that quantity means bad quality, but that need not be the case.

Guaranteed, not all companies operate like that and there are bound to be several which still treat workers as slaves, but one would be able to tell from the workmanship and the bass usually would not come from reputable brands such as Shen or Eastman.

Just my humble opinion.
 
#68
jeff arddun said:
I agree it would be good to keep the jobs here but I don't see how you can compete. My $1200 Eastman mandolin kills anything for the price made in North America (or anywhere else for that matter). The down side is (and I'm not accusing Eastman of this because I don't know) slave labor. We're far too comfortable with the fact that the majority of cheap offshore goods are made by people who have been kept in poverty and have no choice but to work for slave wages.
Click to expand...

And big business is trying to do that to us here as well! Union jobs are threatened everywhere in America.

Lovely as my Eastman guitar is, there's one "dead spot" on the neck that I could never work out. And the finish chipped for no apparent reason. The Palatino electric upright would be okay if it were set up. I refuse to put money into it because I never thought of it as a keeper. I have no similar complaint about any of my American instruments.

It's my feeling that if I am willing to pay $4,000 for the Chinese carved basses that so far have impressed me, I may as well stand up for America and buy an Upton and go over budget. And no, I'm not a republican!:)
 
#69
Instrument making needs well trained and qualified workers. Company owners rather compete for the best workers, than keeping them in "slavery".

I recommend to google for this, you'll easily find some articles on this topic.

Link Removed

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

By the way, the situation of instrument manufacturing in China is pretty similar to Germany's situation hundred years ago (when 90% of the instrument worldwide have been imported from Markneukirchen and Mittenwald).
 
#70
Bassing around said:
The workers in Eastman have individual working spaces and are in charge of producing a part, let's say a bridge or scroll. What's more, the workers are paid based on their workmanship. If a part is done wrongly, the worker has to pay for the bridge. Thus, if a worker wanted to earn, he would carve the parts to the best of his ability.
Click to expand...

Just want to point out that this is called "piece-work." Such a model often produces anxiety among workers and it's an employment model that doesn't have a very positive history. I make no claims regarding what Chinese bass manufacturers do or not have "piece-work" employees.
 
#71
I'd like to start by saying I own a unlabelled bass that is probably Chinese. It is a very good instrument and my Luthier thought it could easily sell anywhere between $4500 to $6000.
If that instrument was made in the US it would probably cost a lot more.
The point I would like to make is that cost doesn't go away. Does not disappear.
What I mean by that is if we can pay $600 for a bass somewhere along the chain someone else is picking up the cost. even a poorly made Palatino cost more than that.
If Americans get paid a lot more than Chinese works per hour. It would be easy to assume the Chinese workers are picking up the tab. Although is not that easy to pin point exactly what happens to the real cost because there are other factors along the chain as well. For instance is very likely that wood is being over harvested. To some that might not even appear as a problem now but most likely in the future it will. Especially when we find out that most goods we've created are sitting in landfills. so right here Nature pays the cost at the beginning and at the end of the process.
The most disappointing fact about Palatinos and Cremonas in my opinion, is that they are toys!
I don't personally know anyone that owns a Palatino type of bass. Not one of my students, private or at school. Not any of the guys gigging around town.
I only seem to see these basses in the classified section of Craigslist. Usually sitting in a garage or basement, badly in need of a set up.
It bothers me that these type of instruments don't get played.Most of them will have a very short life span.
I strongly disagree with the notion that we can only afford what we can afford.
To me that sounds like a justification.
If there is anywhere in the World where people can have what they want is in the US. And instead of having a bass now, a person can certainly save money for even a couple of years and buy something decent.
We vote with our dollars.
 
#73
Bijoux said:
I'd like to start by saying I own a unlabelled bass that is probably Chinese. It is a very good instrument and my Luthier thought it could easily sell anywhere between $4500 to $6000.
If that instrument was made in the US it would probably cost a lot more.
The point I would like to make is that cost doesn't go away. Does not disappear.
What I mean by that is if we can pay $600 for a bass somewhere along the chain someone else is picking up the cost. even a poorly made Palatino cost more than that.
If Americans get paid a lot more than Chinese works per hour. It would be easy to assume the Chinese workers are picking up the tab. Although is not that easy to pin point exactly what happens to the real cost because there are other factors along the chain as well. For instance is very likely that wood is being over harvested. To some that might not even appear as a problem now but most likely in the future it will. Especially when we find out that most goods we've created are sitting in landfills. so right here Nature pays the cost at the beginning and at the end of the process.
The most disappointing fact about Palatinos and Cremonas in my opinion, is that they are toys!
I don't personally know anyone that owns a Palatino type of bass. Not one of my students, private or at school. Not any of the guys gigging around town.
I only seem to see these basses in the classified section of Craigslist. Usually sitting in a garage or basement, badly in need of a set up.
It bothers me that these type of instruments don't get played.Most of them will have a very short life span.
I strongly disagree with the notion that we can only afford what we can afford.
To me that sounds like a justification.
If there is anywhere in the World where people can have what they want is in the US. And instead of having a bass now, a person can certainly save money for even a couple of years and buy something decent.
We vote with our dollars.
Click to expand...

watch this video..
The Story of Stuff
http://www.youtube.com/storyofstuffproject#p/u/22/9GorqroigqM

The true cost of a product is rarely fully reflected in the purchase price.

After watching the video, keep in mind, that it was primarily the industries and people of the USA that championed the "disposable" model of goods consumption after WWII, to boost their ironically labelled "economy".
 
#74
spoonido said:
I am extremely suspicious of the whole Chinese bass concept. With these anonymous basses coming from who knows where in China, made of who knows what, the only recourse is to buy from someone who will back up the product here in the USA.

My Eastman guitar is outstanding... for the money.
My Palatino electric upright is outstanding... for the money.

Neither would hold a candle, however, to an equivalent American product.

I'd be more willing to buy a used Chinese bass after seeing if it behaves well... sort of like getting an adult dog from the humane society rather than buying a puppy whose genetic dispositions turn out to be other than pleasant.

Ideally, I'd rather own an American made instrument. I think we could use the jobs here.
Click to expand...

And hence the aim of this thread....
Made in China basses, sold for years by your local 'bricks and mortar' bass shops, and backed up by your local bass luthiers. This thread belongs to the Chinese basses that have passed the test of time and are shop approved.

Keep in mind that while the manufacturing job was not local (unless you live in China like some TB members), the sales, setup and service jobs are local, in your city/country of residence.
 
#76
longfinger said:
Keep in mind that while the manufacturing job was not local (unless you live in China like some TB members), the sales, setup and service jobs are local, in your city/country of residence.
Click to expand...

Good point, indeed. Don't forget about the shipping and the logistics.
And from the German point of view: many of the parts (e.g. Rubner gears, fingerboards, some tonewoods), varnishes and tools are made and/or sold by German companies to China. So everybody is taking part on the value creation.
 
#79
Barongket said:
I haven't heard much on this thread concerning Wan-Bernadel basses. Does anyone have anything to say about them?
Click to expand...

The two I have played were very nice. My luthier commented on one owned by a player in the Indianapolis Symphony he worked on, saying he thought it was very well constructed and a good bass. The fact that my old friend and great bassist Steve LaSpina has been playing on one, is also a good referral.

You would still need to check out the specific WB you were considering to know if it's the bass for you. Doing mail order on any carved bass isn't the best idea, IMO...but, String Emporium will send one out on trial, at your expense. One of my students did this, but felt the bass was a bit too large for him.
 
#80
I played with a WB last year in Italy and it was a perfect instrument, with an impeccable set up, with lots of volume and a warm cellolike arco sound. String Emporium sent it to Europe via air cargo with a very reasonable shipping cost and this fact makes them easy to be tried. My experience with WB and Christopher basses (in Jonas' shop, Frankfurt) tells me that they are excellent instruments and they compete very well with any other double bass in terms of construction, sound and playability.
Mike
 

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