Enough hijacking this guy's thread. If you want to carry the Pbass/StingRay conversation further, PM me and we'll move this over to a StingRay owner's thread.
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Quesion about Neo Cabs
- Thread starter DeiseBassman
- Start date
I honestly don't think there is a "neo" sound. I've played plenty of them and they are as varied as cabs can get. There is however avery distinct "GK sound" that some people don't dig (me being one of them).
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Thank you.
What was this thread about?..o yeah..GK NEOs..
Now listen.
I want These for my next rig..I played a gig with an MB500 and 2..210Neos..Sounded great.With a 5 string.
How do the 12's compare?..not so much volumewise..but tone
wise..maybe not even tonewise..
can 2 112 neo cabs handle a 5 string at their "volume"?
Ive tried all the mbx(is that the one im thinkin?..the cheap one.)at GC..410..115..2x115..They do not handle (should I say barely even recognize) the low B.
IMO
You can make any amp/speaker combo reproduce old AM radio..or "telephone voice" like "highs"... but can these cabs get LOW? (you can always dial the low out of the cabinet...but you cant make an "inferior" cab handle the lows)
That is the hard part.
K...rant over...I'm prolly sounding like a nutcase..but I hate when My(and others) legit questions go unanswered.
Eh...carry on
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,951
- 5
- 220,594
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Just a general comment about eqing one type of bass to sound like another...
You may get acceptably close but probably not. The reason is that a bass generates signal that's composed of the fundamental plus a whole string of harmonics encased in a decay envelope. It's the harmonics (their proportion and overall level) and the way the note decays (harmonics change relative to themselves and the fundamental) that can not be duplicated by eq. This is a big part of what gives each instrument their characteristic vibe, now start moving pickups, changing body & neck materials, shape, weight and all these harmonics and envelopes change relative to each other.
Eqing one speaker to sound like another is much easier because a speaker is more of a sound reproducer than a generator and frequency response differences are easier to correct because there are way fewer variables (dimension) that dominate the differences between speakers.
This is what (good) designers go through when we design and then voice a driver, be it a Neo, a ceramic, or an Alnico. We adjust the different variables (dust cap, cone thickness, stiffness, weight, spider, surround, voice coil length, etc.) to achieve the desired response. It's an excercise in managing a whole bunch of tradeoffs. It's certainly possible to make a Neo sound just like a ceramic given enough desire, but Neo also allows a designer to do things that some of us wanted to do with ceramioc but just couldn't because of required geometries that Neo allows (with modern manufacturing techniques).
Hope this helps.
You may get acceptably close but probably not. The reason is that a bass generates signal that's composed of the fundamental plus a whole string of harmonics encased in a decay envelope. It's the harmonics (their proportion and overall level) and the way the note decays (harmonics change relative to themselves and the fundamental) that can not be duplicated by eq. This is a big part of what gives each instrument their characteristic vibe, now start moving pickups, changing body & neck materials, shape, weight and all these harmonics and envelopes change relative to each other.
Eqing one speaker to sound like another is much easier because a speaker is more of a sound reproducer than a generator and frequency response differences are easier to correct because there are way fewer variables (dimension) that dominate the differences between speakers.
This is what (good) designers go through when we design and then voice a driver, be it a Neo, a ceramic, or an Alnico. We adjust the different variables (dust cap, cone thickness, stiffness, weight, spider, surround, voice coil length, etc.) to achieve the desired response. It's an excercise in managing a whole bunch of tradeoffs. It's certainly possible to make a Neo sound just like a ceramic given enough desire, but Neo also allows a designer to do things that some of us wanted to do with ceramioc but just couldn't because of required geometries that Neo allows (with modern manufacturing techniques).
Hope this helps.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Pickup position overtone envelopes are kinda hard in some regions to get with simple EQ. True. Especially between a mid-bridge sweet spot with a wide aperture sensing like the MM, and a narrow aperture J bridge, or P or J neck.
Bass Modeling as I'm experiencing it seems not to have much trouble at all, with a more complex juggling of multiple envelopes. Sometimes even the less ideal things like the deader G string are in there ; }
Bass Modeling as I'm experiencing it seems not to have much trouble at all, with a more complex juggling of multiple envelopes. Sometimes even the less ideal things like the deader G string are in there ; }
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,951
- 5
- 220,594
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, bass modeling is a far cry from eq, and there's a ton of potential there for designers who are willing to dedicate their careers to the nuances of DSP. I worked a bit with Keith Barr and he confirmed what I always suspected... the (real) DSP guys are a little bit different and think about these things in totally different ways. Sad about his passing.
DSP is the defacto standard in speaker processing and it would certainly be much more effective to model different speakers/drivers in DSP given the simpler differences.
I would sure appreciate it if some of the guitar/bass modeling designers would participate and talk a little about the complexities of modeling the different basses and speaker cabinets and what goes into a model from their end. It might give us all a little insight into how we as players or users could get better results from our gear and maybe something about how and why the general families of basses sound the way they do.
