Question about fender amps tone signature

[gtirard]

I"ve never liked Fender Rumble amps when I had to use them, not my thing (*)
And I've never had an opportunity to try other series like the Bassman for example.

Is there a Fender tone signature on all of their amps including the Bassman, or do you think it's a completely different animal that I should listen to?

(*) In depth, I've seen here on TB the explanation on how to EQ a Rumble to neutralize its baked-in mid scoop tone. I've tried, and for me it improves things slightly, but even with that I still found it muddy compared to other amps, so I guess there are 2 things I dislike in Fender Rumble amps: the default EQ, and the lack of clarity/definition.

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

What pedals do you have?
Maybe preamp pedal or amp sims could dry out your mud.

 

[beans-on-toast]

The Fender tone stack is what it is. For clarity, I prefer a simple uncluttered signal path with a minimalist tone stage. As suggested, a pedal could help. Start by setting the Fender tone controls to as flat as you can when using the pedal and see what the pedal EQ can do.

The speaker cabinet can contribute to the mids.

 

[gtirard]

What pedals do you have?
Maybe preamp pedal or amp sims could dry out your mud.

I have a Quilter and a Sisma amps, a Barefaced and a GR Bass cabs, and I don't need any pedal to get a clean and articulate tone. OK, this is high end stuff. But at the rehearsal studio when there is a Markbass amp I also manage to get a clean tone easily. It's only when there's a Fender Rumble that I struggle (all I get is mud whatever I do). If an amp needs a pedal to produce a usable tone, I prefer to stay away from it.

My question was more about the Bassman amps, compared to the Rumble: does it have a comparable tone, or is it distinct from the Rumble series?

 

[Yahboy]

I"ve never liked Fender Rumble amps when I had to use them, not my thing (*)
And I've never had an opportunity to try other series like the Bassman for example.

Is there a Fender tone signature on all of their amps including the Bassman, or do you think it's a completely different animal that I should listen to?

(*) In depth, I've seen here on TB the explanation on how to EQ a Rumble to neutralize its baked-in mid scoop tone. I've tried, and for me it improves things slightly, but even with that I still found it muddy compared to other amps, so I guess there are 2 things I dislike in Fender Rumble amps: the default EQ, and the lack of clarity/definition.

I believe you will change your mind if you able compare both Rumble 500c and 800c side by side with horn/tweeter OFF , especially when you turn the volume knob over 2 o clock.

Set in 100w mode on 800c still louder , cleaner and better detail compare to R100c.

Those tone clarity different just like Rumble 115 cab Vs Bassmam 115 cab.

I wish the future Rumble V4 combo has same tonal as R800c .

 

[Nebadon2000]

Since 1975 I have enjoyed Fender Basses and Sound of many Fender Guitar Amps I have heard

 

[gtirard]

Let's forget what I think about the Rumble amps, I shouldn't have mentioned it.

My question was very simply: do Bassman amps sound similar to Rumble amps, or are they very different?

 

[Aussie Player]

Let's forget what I think about the Rumble amps, I shouldn't have mentioned it.

My question was very simply: do Bassman amps sound similar to Rumble amps, or are they very different?

No, they are vastly superior.

 

[tvbop]

Old Bassmans, new Bassmans, Rumbles.. all mid shy and all no use live to me at all.. tho they do record nicely. Always used Ampeg live...That gnarly mid push makes everything Ive ever done sound great.

 

[RColie]

I have played the Rumble 500c, 800c and Bassman 800. As mentioned above, the 800c is cleaner and clearer than the 500c. The active channel on the Bassman 800 is quite different than the Rumbles. The Bassman active EQ can get more variety of tones and can be overdriven if desired.

 

[micguy]

My question was more about the Bassman amps, compared to the Rumble: does it have a comparable tone, or is it distinct from the Rumble series?

The rumbles have a tone stack literally copied from the Bassmans buried in the circuit - it's not the knobs you can twist, it's another part of the circuit that is there specifically to bake in the "Fender" tone.- with all the knobs at noon, A Rumble and a Bassman will be very similar in terms of their baked in tone - that is intentional..

 

[Wasnex]

I can't answer the question about how similar Rumbles sound to other Fender amps...never played a Rumble and probably never will.

I learned to play through a black face Fender Twin Reverb and that basic tone sort of feels like home to me. I don't really perceive it as mid scooped. To me it sounds sort of bright and HiFi with a soft resonance in the low mids and a lot of glass and air up top. The sound does not have a lot of gank; rather the hi mids are nice and smooth.

The modern amp I have played that is closest to the center of the Fender tone universe is the Orange AD200B. I find it surprisingly close. I have not played a Bassman 300 Pro, Super Bassman, or 100T.

As you know I have a bunch of amps. I tend to classify most of them into three tone universes: Fender, Ampeg, and Hiwatt. I also tend to recognize certain characteristics that some amps seem to borrow across tone universes. For example the Ashdown CTM 300 has a modified Fender tone stack, but it's voiced to have a low mid push similar to an SVT. I would say the level of treble is similar to my SVTs as well. The CTM is darker than the typical Fender voicing and it does not have any significant air or glass. Also it does not produce the same grindy quality in the mids as my SVTs.

Hiwatts also have a fairly strong baked in tone. Overall they produce huge lows and aggressive high mids. Fenders have a tone control setting that approaches nominal flat. Hiwatts do not. AFAIK adjusting the Hiwatt mid control moves the mid scoop around, and by the time it actually starts filling in the mid scoop it starts developing a peak in the high mids. Since I don't like a lot of gank, I find it challenging to balance the tone overall; especially the mids.

SVT are very close to flat with the tone controls at noon. But I tend to perceive the sound as a bit dark and bloated. To my ears the Fender mid-scoop clears up and sweetens the mids, and I like the smooth high mids with a bit of air and glass up top. While I think the SVT has the more powerful and functional tone controls, they can't produce a Fender or Hiwatt sound.

I think the best approach is to find an amp with a voicing that is pretty close to your intrinsic preference. However the voicing alone is not necessarily enough because most tone controls do not allow you to vary frequency centers and bandwidths. So you need to also consider the way the tone controls modify the voicing, and choose an amp with controls that respond in a manner that is intuitive and desirable to you.

I would say the majority of my amps use a variation of the Fender tone stack. It's important to understand that they don't all have the some voicing and the tone controls don't all behave the same.

I think of the Ashdown CTM 300 as an incredible amp with a modified Fender tone stack. However, the natural voicing is not really inline with my tone goals and the tone controls do not respond in a way that is intuitive or suits my needs. Additionally the controls are so interactive with each other that they can be maddingly confounding. I enjoy playing with this amp in my basement and can adjust it for a range of really cool tones, but I think I would need to add a powerful and flexible EQ pedal to use it live....but there are TB members who claim the CTM 300 as their favorite amp.

 

[DaveParker39]

The rumbles have a tone stack literally copied from the Bassmans buried in the circuit - it's not the knobs you can twist, it's another part of the circuit that is there specifically to bake in the "Fender" tone.- with all the knobs at noon, A Rumble and a Bassman will be very similar in terms of their baked in tone - that is intentional..

Yes, and this is true of many amps... limitations to ensure the amp sounds like what the amp was designed to sound like.

 

[Jim C]

I owned a Rumble 100 and still have a Fender Showman head.
The standard Feder tone stack sounds musical but with limited EQ options. It's never going to sound anything like a parametric or even a James tone circuit though. I find the older tube Fender bass amps to work pretty well (for bass) assuming you don't want to make big EQ changes.

The Fender Rumble I had was nothing short of horrible (other than weight). I believe the boxy tone was more from the cabinet than the amp, but when you have a lifeless pig, it's hard to pinpoint where the garbage comes from.
To me it had no clarity, 3-D sound stage, and generally bad tone. I could be alone on this as many like the Rumble. I found the similar amps byAmpeg and Peavey were much more musical albeit heavier.

 

[Wasnex]

The Fender Rumble I had was nothing short of horrible (other than weight). I believe the boxy tone was more from the cabinet than the amp, but when you have a lifeless pig, it's hard to pinpoint where the garbage comes from.

Although I have never played a Rumble, various comments I have read suggest I would have the same perception....but a lot of people seem to like them.

 

[Freight Train]

I"ve never liked Fender Rumble amps when I had to use them, not my thing (*)
And I've never had an opportunity to try other series like the Bassman for example.

Is there a Fender tone signature on all of their amps including the Bassman, or do you think it's a completely different animal that I should listen to?

(*) In depth, I've seen here on TB the explanation on how to EQ a Rumble to neutralize its baked-in mid scoop tone. I've tried, and for me it improves things slightly, but even with that I still found it muddy compared to other amps, so I guess there are 2 things I dislike in Fender Rumble amps: the default EQ, and the lack of clarity/definition.

I've never played a Rumble, but I've gigged steadily for 11 years now with a Bassman 100T and the Bassman 410Neo cab, and at least that rig does not have a baked-in "scooped" sound. Just had a guy in some thread here run some sweeps on both channels of the 100T and the head itself has no curve of its own beyond a 1/2 dB here and there in the spectrum. There's no comparing the Bassman 100T or Super Bassman preamp section to the Rumble. Both Bassman heads are two channel switchable with channel one having the classic Fender passive tone stack with switchable bass and treble boosts, channel two having overdrive and active eq with sweepable mids and different flavored bass and treble boosts. The bass boost function on channel 2 adds a mid scoop if you want a scooped sound, but otherwise it's tabula rosa with tone controls in the flat detent position and the boosts off.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Although I have never played a Rumble, various comments I have read suggest I would have the same perception....but a lot of people seem to like them.

I think the main attraction is they are a cost effective, light option and at the end of the day in use the output will sound like an electric bass. JMO

My experience with rumbles is they sound a lot better when not driven to extremes. But one could say that about a lot of amps and or cabs

 

[Bob_Ross]

Old Bassmans, new Bassmans, Rumbles.. all mid shy ...[snip]... Always used Ampeg live...That gnarly mid push makes everything Ive ever done sound great.

In fairness, Captain Pedantic wants to point out that it isn't that Fender's voicing is "mid shy" ...it's that
A) Fender's tone stack is completely counter-intuitive if you expect flat [sic] response to be with the Mid control at noon; and
B) there's really no way to "push" the midrange beyond the actual flat [sic] position, which is with the Mid control fully CW

 

[YourGuitarist]

The fender rumble 40 I have has a notch at about 600-700 Hz that I casually measured both in the headphone out and the cabinet close mic'd with an omni. I push the hi-mids (1.2k) a lot and the low-mids (270) a little to get more presence, it ain't bad. The rumble I have also features a bass boost unsurprisingly. Because neither mid control overlaps with the notch, its difficult to remove, especially because it is a relatively narrow cut. A lot of people do like mid cuts in the vicinity of 500-800 so that's why it works for so many but personally, I believe a lot of presence on the bass to exist in that region. I have rarely found boosts above 2k to add clarity in a mix unless its a huge amount. I loved the markbass 210 I played in a GC once. I think that clarity comes from emphasized but clean low mids (~300-400).

 

[DaveParker39]

The fender rumble 40 I have has a notch at about 600-700 Hz that I casually measured both in the headphone out and the cabinet close mic'd with an omni. I push the hi-mids (1.2k) a lot and the low-mids (270) a little to get more presence, it ain't bad. The rumble I have also features a bass boost unsurprisingly. Because neither mid control overlaps with the notch, its difficult to remove, especially because it is a relatively narrow cut. A lot of people do like mid cuts in the vicinity of 500-800 so that's why it works for so many but personally, I believe a lot of presence on the bass to exist in that region. I have rarely found boosts above 2k to add clarity in a mix unless its a huge amount. I loved the markbass 210 I played in a GC once. I think that clarity comes from emphasized but clean low mids (~300-400).

With the three toggles all engaged I dime the low mids and then season the other eq controls to taste (also dependent on foh)