Question about mankind.

[bluesblaster]

you could conceivably get along without money if you have other skills, barring this money is what drives the human culture, If the world economy came to a grinding halt tomorrow this would be properly illustrated.

 

[Bloodhammer]

We can survive without money, but would the absence of money make us nondestructive?

 

[zachoff]

We can survive without money, but would the absence of money make us nondestructive?

No, it's about power. Right now, money is a quick path to power. Without money, humans would find another path to power.

 

[bluesblaster]

Define undestructive

would a non monetary world passify us ? in a word...no

you would have to kill to survive.

 

[Eric Perry]

Agreed. Man is doing nothing unique other than in scale. We're overpopulated and overdue for a population correction to restrain our excess.

Because power, money and ego are more important than anything else.

Mankind could be an evolutionary mistake.

An out-of-control infestation that blanketed the planet.

Profit.

Power. Greed.

All of the above.

 

[BayStateBass]

Humans aren't the only animals that have the concept of possession. So are we a special case, or would intelligent squid in a million years develop the concepts of value and then greed? I don't expect an answer to that. It's just something to think about.

There are many human concepts or emotions that can be seen in the animal kingdom. Love, fear, hate, vengeance, etc.

I remember reading a story about a zoo. I can't remember where it was exactly. However, a young tiger cub was intentionally killed by a crocodile. A short time later, the mother of that Tiger cub found a way to get loose, sought out the crocodile that had killed it's offspring, and in return killed the crocodile. I think the zoo may have been in India. Just an example of the reason and emotion that we think is exclusively human. Vengeance and an understanding of loss.

I also remember watching a fairly long video about a chimpanzee society where control and power were important, as they are in most animal societies. There was one chimpanzee that periodically challenged those who were the alphas, and seemed to be generally disliked by the society as a whole. He was surrounded by the others and beaten to death, even though he did not genuinely pose a threat to those who were in control, he just put up frequent and easily dismissed challenges. Basically, they didn't like him and he was a nuisance. So they killed him. Hatred.

So what differentiates us from our animal brethren? Not a whole lot. Save for one thing; conscience. As near as I can tell, humans are the only animals that consciously make decisions to take actions that benefit others while taking from themselves. It happens a lot. It's not logical, it's not instinctual, and it certainly doesn't comply with what other species do for the most part. Some say it's God. Some say it's Social Consciousness, some say it's other things. But at some time, in some way, the human race developed this idea that sometimes sacrifice of one's personal desires and needs was necessary to help others of the species. That seems to me to be something uniquely human.

Where did this "conscience" come from? There is no logical reason for it. And in many cases it reduces advantages we may have among our peers and in our world. Humans are not driven purely by instinct, as many animals are. We have a sense of "right and wrong", and it's not purely something taught in our upbringing. Yet at the same time we are the most horrible of animals on this planet. As far as I know, we are the only species that hunts it's own kind for pleasure and enjoyment. Yet we are also the only species that makes huge sacrifices to protect others over ourselves and would sacrifice our lives to protect a stranger. Quite the dichotomy.

This alone makes me believe we are something unique. Not an evolutionary mistake, but a product of careful engineering and design. Such an anomaly should have been wiped out quickly by nature. But is wasn't. And it grew exponentially to command a planet it was physically incompetent to rule over simply based on a few things like brain function and opposable thumbs.

There's more to it than that, more to it than just a better brain and the ability to fashion weapons. And that's the philosophical.

 

[Bloodhammer]

Define undestructive

would a non monetary world passify us ? in a word...no

you would have to kill to survive.

Right. So is it just us? Are we a special case? Or do we just exhibit the same properties of all life?

And before someone says that only humans wage war and/or commit genocide, chimpanzees do that too.

 

[DerHoggz]

Altruism has been observed in animals, can't think of specific examples off the top of my head though.

 

[Gaolee]

Meh. The continued existence of the human species is proof there's a God, that God has a really weird sense of humor, and likes the entertainment. Our ancestors should have been lion food, judging by behavior in traffic, on escalators, etc.

 

[Bloodhammer]

Funny you should mention lion food, but that's a discussion for the Lobby. :|

 

[chungweishan]

Bottlenose Dolphins kill for fun. Sometimes apes/monkeys will adopt other species.

Mankind, like every other living thing, just wants to survive, and within our own individual lives we just want purpose and live within the most comforts we can achieve. It is through our ingenuity of technology that we can be perceived as destructive towards nature, but it is usually not our intention to be destructive. It is just the by-product of the society most of us grew up in.

It isn't just money or power. As money is only a means to barter with others within the society we are in, to accomplish things I deem necessary to survive that I cannot or do not want to currently do myself. In the current society I live in, more money just means less I have to do on my own.

For example, do I really need the bass guitar that was made from chopping down unique Koa trees, with the strings and electronics made from specific minerals mined and smelted from the earth, shipped to me by vehicles that pollute the skies? No. It is a comfort product. A product that gives me purpose in my life: to entertain myself and others. Am I purposely wanting this bass because it destroys the earth? No. Can I make the bass on my own? Sure... it would just be a lot more difficult to do myself. I don't know how to smelt.

Hopefully, I can use this bass to make enough income to survive and live comfortably.
---

Are we more destructive than other living things? We're definitely more effective at it. But that doesn't mean other animals are exempt. There is the concept we call "invasive species" that are changing eco-systems. While it's true most of the time it could be considered mankind's fault for bringing species from one area to another (through trade or mistake), these species change the status quo of a certain area.
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Mankind as we know it is insignificant in the timeline of the Universe. Earth was here before us, and will be here after us. And by the time the sun explodes finally destroying earth, our escapades will have long been forgotten.

By the way, even if we nuke ourselves in oblivion, just know there are some fungi that can feed off radiation. So feel good that something will survive. Perhaps evolve, and use our long dead bodies as gas for their fungi-cars.

 

[will33]

Money in and of itself isn't inherently evil, it's just a more convenient way of keeping track of stuff, so I don't have to carry around a bushel of potatos to trade for your bushel of wheat. If you don't happen to need potatos, I'd have to carry them back home again and catch a chicken to trade for your wheat.


The things people use money to do are what can be evil. Especially when they start trading money for money's sake. Money that isn't based on or backed by anything of real value like potatos or wheat or silver or gold. That's how you take down societies.

 

[BawanaRik]

Inspired by the climate damage thread.....


Why can't mankind live within nature. Why does he harm the environment unlike any other creature on the planet? I know some will correctly say it's our intelligence but then why has nature spawned a being that can do what we do in the first place?

Was this an accident of nature? Is it just un natural? Is there a larger plan by mother nature? What are your feelings and insights into this topic?

My short answer would be because she can. The power to feed an out of control Id , the look upon me type of mindset.

It's been a great ride but one of the things the smarter types are talking about is we, those of use here right now, may have lived during the glory years of humanity.

Then again maybe not. SciFi has talked about Free Energy for decades.

I hope for an evolutionary step that will create a being able to control our more base urges while allow the good that is within us to continue.

 

[BawanaRik]

Meh. The continued existence of the human species is proof there's a God, that God has a really weird sense of humor, and likes the entertainment. Our ancestors should have been lion food, judging by behavior in traffic, on escalators, etc.

There evidence that our ancestors were faster, quicker and perhaps smarter than today's human.

 

[96tbird]

Fungi. Everyone knows it'll be the cockroaches that inherit the earth.

Whenever these topics come up its apparent that without sci-tech we wouldn't have all this crap that screws the world up. The constant drive of humanity asking why this, why that has led to this mess.

The blame is on the brain and the notion behind this symbol: ?

 

[FilterFunk]

There's natural, supernatural, and by definition there'd have to be something that's subnatural (oooh! New thread idea).

We aren't any more gluttonous than any other group becomes when underpredated. Rabbits, deer, whatever fall into the same cycle of eating themselves into famine until their predator population comes back into balence.

But do other species do things out of pure "because we can" indulgence?

 

[FilterFunk]

TL;DR: there's no such thing as fake titties

LOL; good one!

I still say that in a presupposed all-natural universe, everything in it must also be natural, or you might have to say that the creators of the un-natural substances could themselves be somehow beyond, or perhaps ahead of, nature.

The "fake titties" are certainly not organic, but they're made by natural beings from natural materials, however processed those materials may be.

 

[FilterFunk]

There's natural, supernatural, and by definition there'd have to be something that's subnatural (oooh! New thread idea).

"Subnatural" - very interesting...

 

[Bloodhammer]

Fungi. Everyone knows it'll be the cockroaches that inherit the earth.

Whenever these topics come up its apparent that without sci-tech we wouldn't have all this crap that screws the world up. The constant drive of humanity asking why this, why that has led to this mess.

The blame is on the brain and the notion behind this symbol: ?

Tom: "You ever hear, 'curiosity strangled a cat?'"

Jerry: "I thought it was, 'curiosity killed a cat.'"

Tom: "God lives in the details, Jerry."

 

[Unrepresented]

But do other species do things out of pure "because we can" indulgence?

To a degree. We're much more curious and playful by design. It's a double edged sword. The same qualities that allow us to discover new understandings of the world allow us to be hedonistic jerks.