Double Bass Question on positioning the bass

[bassmastan]

Thank you for the interesting and informative analysis. What I find especially fascinating is the boldfaced part about the improved tone with a lower stool. There's probably a thread about this somewhere, but it had never occurred to me before. I assume this would relate to the lower angle allowing the natural force of gravity to bring your arm weight into the string(?)

Lee, I think you're right on point here. With the more horizontal angle I had both better leverage, and had to do less work with the strings. I actually enjoyed the feeling, it was like a sigh of relief. The higher angles forced me to balance more, and by working against gravity forced me to do more work than I think I should. At the extreme high of 36" I felt like I would have been better off just standing and bending.

Once I give my back a rest I'll be trying/retrying 3 stools, the 30", a 26" and the 24", to see if I can get a more accurate read. This is the range Im shooting for

 

[MikeCanada]

There has been a fair amount of discussion on sitting vs. standing and how that impacts sound. I remember contributing to such a discussion in the past, although not well enough to point you in the direction of a specific thread. My experience (sitting on a 22" stool) is that with the bass on a more cello-like angle you benefit a lot more from arm weight. Playing with "more weight" is usually understood as relaxing and releasing the tension in your arm, and with the bass on more of an angle you are doing so into the instrument. While standing or sitting on a high stool with the bass in a more vertical position, there is less bass and more floor "under" the bow. You have to lift/hold up your arm more to get to the top string, but you are doing so with big muscles. There are players that employ this concept while standing very vertically or with the bass almost leaning forward, but I haven't been able to do so nearly as successfully as sitting.

It sounds like you are doing a lot of exploring and coming up with some positive results, and it is wonderful to see follow up, which tends to be a rarity on Talkbass.

 

[bassmastan]

There has been a fair amount of discussion on sitting vs. standing and how that impacts sound. I remember contributing to such a discussion in the past, although not well enough to point you in the direction of a specific thread. My experience (sitting on a 22" stool) is that with the bass on a more cello-like angle you benefit a lot more from arm weight. Playing with "more weight" is usually understood as relaxing and releasing the tension in your arm, and with the bass on more of an angle you are doing so into the instrument. While standing or sitting on a high stool with the bass in a more vertical position, there is less bass and more floor "under" the bow. You have to lift/hold up your arm more to get to the top string, but you are doing so with big muscles. There are players that employ this concept while standing very vertically or with the bass almost leaning forward, but I haven't been able to do so nearly as successfully as sitting.

It sounds like you are doing a lot of exploring and coming up with some positive results, and it is wonderful to see follow up, which tends to be a rarity on Talkbass.

Hey Mike,

Even just thinking back to how it felt/sounded I loved it. Now the BC A+C strings are another story... Not liking them but I'll check out some other threads before I start asking more of my own questions

As for followup, I figure that if someone else is having the same problem, maybe they can get a more detailed answer here. Results do vary but my experiences may be helpful!

 

[bassmastan]

I'd like to give a followup to the previous post.

This morning I had a chance to try two stools.

After stretching, I went to try the 24" stool and the 30" stool.

While trying the 24" I still felt that same tone quality however I noticed that I was again feeling slight pain in my lower back, specifically on my right side. There was also not a pain, but I felt a little uncomfortable in my left elbow, I am more used to my elbow being able to spread out more so the wrist and forearm are the same angle. Thumb position was extremely comfortable. Interestingly the extension wasn't too bad.

In the 30th felt much more back pain but my left arm felt very comfortable and the sound was pretty good as well.

I then tried standing, after standing I felt no back pain (i stand similar to Streicher, my left leg and left foot supports the bass, because the bass is big enough and low enough), however my left hand hurt and I felt some pain in my right shoulder...

Am I falling apart or what

 

[sean_on_bass]

I went through some trials with posture this year, although i am a beginner so that is probably normal. After considering all the variables and trying every standing/seated stance i could think of, i finally determined that standing is the way to go for me, for the following reasons:

-To me, sitting is inherintely bad for your back, while standing is healthier. I already have a bad lower back from some past laborous jobs, so finding a position that would not aggravate that was essential. Standing helps keep my stabilizing and core muscles strong throughout the whole body.

-Stool dependence and consistency of position. I did not want to be dependent on a technically unneeded piece of gear, the stool. While experimenting with a stool i bought one of my own to bring everywhere. I quickly realized that playing in anything but my stool was causing inconsistencies in my playing, primarily intonation. Standing, my position is pretty much the same every time, every place. Plus, i dont have to lug around the stool.

-Better angle for pizz. I am primarily a pizz player and standing seemed to provide more natural access to the string for my right hand. While sitting i felt like i was reaching too far and forced to support a suspended arm. While bowing is a little harder standing, with a little practice it becomes just as natural.

-Engagement. I simply feel more engaged with the music and the band when standing. Blood is flowing to my brain in a healthy way and my muscles are slightly engaged. It feels like i am up and doing something, being active.

With all that said, it took awhile to find a good standing position that was comfortable, specifically without strain in the left hand. I was playing seated largely because of this. Once i figured out how to compensate for that issue and play ergonomically standing, i see no reason in revisiting the stool for now.

 

[bassmastan]

Hey Seanto, thanks for the reply, interesting points. However I do very little pizz work unless its an orch passage or solo piece. However these are some good points, especially about bloodflow. I may find a stool to use just for orch work and stand for solo work, or stand for everything.

I got back from the doctor (as stated above). He told me that there was both strain and inflammation in the muscles in my back, not from posture but from the angles of the bass and arms, and how back muscles are working. However standing my muscles are not tensing up.

So here is the million-and-one dollar question: Should I risk the long-term effects, even with a lower stool, or stay standing?

But If I wanted the angle of a lower stool standing up, should I use a laborie endpin (I have been looking at a bunch of threads). My teacher at school does not use a laborie endpin and I have heard that he discourages it, however if it would help my body in the long-term and help my bass playing career I think I can talk him into seeing the other way. Or should I give the vertical bass a try, I dont want to do too much bending (like the laborie), but I dont want to strain my left hand.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed my mind and body thank you greatly. (even though my back hurts from the 6 shots of prednasone I received today)