Question regarding relationship between chords progressions and bass lines

[Shenron]

There is no simple answer or magic formula.

There is! It's the chord's name

Ok, it's a bit of a joke, sorry I couldn't resist... but my joke is not completely off.

At a VERY basic level, if you play the chord's root note, you are playing a valid bassline. It might be too simple, but with a proper rhythm pattern it can already be interesting.

At next level, you can add the root octave(s). Still the same note technically, but already introduces variations.

Small level-up again, add the 5th. Unless the chord is diminished, it's always a perfect 5th.

If you then want to add the 3rd to your bassline, you need to know whether the chord itself is major or minor, and use the corresponding type of 3rd.

But eventually, you can definitely use the notes implied by the chord's full name, whatever it is, without the need to sort out what is the implied key. Especially since there isn't always one single implied key, but multiple possibilities. So if the band is playing an Fmaj7sus2#11 (not even sure if it's written like that) you can safely build a bassline using F (root), C (perf 5th), E (maj 7th), G (maj 2nd) and B (aug 11th). You could also guess this is probably in F lydian key, but it's not the only option.

None of these of course guarantee to get a memorable bassline but are a good start. It also should not be forgotten that for a great bassline at least half of the matter is the rhythm pattern rather than the pitch of the notes.

 

[SharpCat]

I don't think anyone mentioned patterns, though of course they'll be covered in the books. But the bass is tuned (by most people) in a consistent way, so if you know where the root is, the fifth is here, or there, or over there...based on the pattern. Same with the third, etc. Handy for beginners.

 

[Wasnex]

The root of chords is usually the lowest note. IMHO the primary role of the bass is to play the root. Guitar doesn't always play the root and can't play as low as the bass. Piano can play lower than the bass...but ideally a good piano player will stay out of your way most of the time.

The bass's primary responsibility to play the root doesn't mean it can't play other notes. Bass lines are often made up of many notes. The tendency is to play chord tones on beats. However syncopation can displace the alignment between beats and chord tones. Also the bass emphasizes the root and tends to place it on or near the down beat of measures.

Bass lines also contain many non-chord tones. An analysis of the chords and melody is used decide what key you are playing in. Here's and example:

Whenever you see a dominant 7 chord shape it usually functions as a V7 chord and suggests the key center is a 5th lower. Lets say the music has D7. This suggest the key is G Major or G minor. The key signature for G major has F#. The key signature for G minor has Bb and Eb. However, harmonic minor raises the F natural to F#. Also Melodic/Jazz minor raises the Eb to E natural and the F natural to F#. By looking at the notes of the melody you learn if D7 is implying G major or G minor. So if the melody has Bb or Eb. If you play a "B" it most likely will be a Bb. There is less certainty around E natural, Eb, F, F#, so you have look deeper into the music and use your ears and judgment.

ii V7 progressions are common in music and don't necessarily resolve to I or i. Jazz in particular uses lot's of ii V7 chord combinations, and many of these chords are outside of the prevailing key center.


Western Music theory sort of lays down a foundation of rules. But at a higher level of understand there are range of different structured ways of breaking these foundational rules.

There is also other music systems music that have different rules. For example some of the rules for blues varies a bit from classical Western music theory.

 

[micguy]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is.

I've been playing bass since 1977. I'd also like to understand what that relationship is. I'm working on it constantly. 47 years in ( I played violin for over a decade before that) , I'm still figuring out.... things. There isn't a simple formula - there are as many answers as there are songs. Wait, that's not right - I play the same songs with different singers, in different places, with different audiences, and each one of those, there's a different optimal bass line (and rhythmic structure) - what you do depends a lot of what everyone else on stage (and in the audience) is doing - you fit the vibe/add to it, etc. Music is ephemeral - it exists in a time and place, and then it's gone. If you try to impose a rigid formula on music, it's not the same thing - you're not being part of what's happening, you're just repeating a sequence that you learned..

At home, I drill the chord structure into my brain - that needs to be fully baked before I go to play. On a gig, I work with that and what's happening around me - on stage, in the audience, everything enters into the choices I make. In some of my early bands, we had fixed parts but now, it's not so cut and dried. It takes experience to get to where you are free to come up with parts (or variations of a basic part) on the spot, but when you get there, it's well worth it.

Congrats on making it 8 weeks. As a forced piano student at age 7 (as we had a piano in my house, I was heavily obligated to try playing that), I gave up before I got to that point. I hope you get to a good understanding of what you seek, but in reality, the truth is that what you seek is not really there - at least it's not as concrete as your question implies.

 

[MLC_BassPlayer]

My $0.02:

1) as a bass player, you get to play anything that's in the key of the chord. Example, a basic GCD tune. When the guitars are playing G, you get to play anything in the G major scale. When guitars play C, you can play anything in the C major scale. D chord = D major scale. Now, what notes SOUND good and how many notes to play are another matter.

2) Learn one and two step leading notes. Example - how to walk from G to C or from D back to G.

3) Learn how to apply the basic 1-3-5 blues pattern or the 1-3 (flat)-4 pattern.

4) Learn how to apply the basic Root Five country bounce.

5) Learn how to apply the basic 1-5-8 run (think Hotel California)

6) How many notes to play often correlates directly to the kick drum pattern. Learn to lock in with the drummer's foot (or feet).

To me, that's basics of 80% of any bass line ever written.

Your mileage may vary....

 

[sokolasty]

There's overwhelmingly many valid answers. My recommendation is this Scotts Bass Lesson video on walking bass
The idea is to play root, third, fifth and a half step above or below next root
This is a great starting point and gives immediate results that motivate to deeper research

 

[Patrice B]

The root of chords is usually the lowest note. IMHO the primary role of the bass is to play the root. Guitar doesn't always play the root and can't play as low as the bass. Piano can play lower than the bass...but ideally a good piano player will stay out of your way most of the time.

The bass's primary responsibility to play the root doesn't mean it can't play other notes. Bass lines are often made up of many notes. The tendency is to play chord tones on beats. However syncopation can displace the alignment between beats and chord tones. Also the bass emphasizes the root and tends to place it on or near the down beat of measures.

Bass lines also contain many non-chord tones. An analysis of the chords and melody is used decide what key you are playing in. Here's and example:

Whenever you see a dominant 7 chord shape it usually functions as a V7 chord and suggests the key center is a 5th lower. Lets say the music has D7. This suggest the key is G Major or G minor. The key signature for G major has F#. The key signature for G minor has Bb and Eb. However, harmonic minor raises the F natural to F#. Also Melodic/Jazz minor raises the Eb to E natural and the F natural to F#. By looking at the notes of the melody you learn if D7 is implying G major or G minor. So if the melody has Bb or Eb. If you play a "B" it most likely will be a Bb. There is less certainty around E natural, Eb, F, F#, so you have look deeper into the music and use your ears and judgment.

ii V7 progressions are common in music and don't necessarily resolve to I or i. Jazz in particular uses lot's of ii V7 chord combinations, and many of these chords are outside of the prevailing key center.


Western Music theory sort of lays down a foundation of rules. But at a higher level of understand there are range of different structured ways of breaking these foundational rules.

There is also other music systems music that have different rules. For example some of the rules for blues varies a bit from classical Western music theory.

… and there are the rules of Brian Wilson where half of the time, chords are inverted so, as an example, C/E is written, implying that you should play the E on the strong beats… Sorry, not beginner advice, I know

 

[vindibona1]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now. ... I do have questions about determining bass lines given the chord progressions of songs as I actively listen for the bass line within a song and wonder about how they were originally created.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is. Let's say we have a song with a easy I, IV, V chord progression in the key of C. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

Please forgive me if the stuff below are things you already know. Perhaps someone else can benefit from them (or not).

Method books are a good starting place to get a BASIC start. Several good ones have already been recommended. But there are some elements that I think might want to focus on, if not first, at the same time.

1) Basic bass note essentials. 1a) Learn the notes on the fingerboard at least to the 12th fret, especially the 3rd and 4th strings. 4 string is imperative. If you've been playing guitar, then you probably orient on the low E string which should help you. See "octaves" to help learn the 1st and 2nd strings notes on the FB.

2) Patterns-
Octaves: Starting from the low E, if you move from the 4th down two strings to the 2nd string, then down two frets from wherever you are you will have octaves.
5ths: Often used in combination with the root of a chord as a "power chord" and is important in developing any type of bass line even if you know it's there but don't play it. A 5th is one string higher and two frets down from the root.

3) Learn how to spell all 12 major and 12 minor and 24 major and minor 7th chords. This is essential if a lead sheet gets put in front of you. You can learn 9ths, 10ths, 11ths and 13ths later. After you get the root chords down, then try spelling them as "inversions". Example; C major, root, then "1st inversion"... 1/3/5/(7).... 3/5/(7)/1... then 5/(7)/1/3 [7ths being optional]

3rds: Both major and minor thirds complete "triad" (chord). Very useful as 3rds are often used as "anchor notes" rather than the root (known as 1st inversion)

7ths: Are the "sauce on the spaghetti. Major and minor 7ths really help harmonization as well as help when 7th chords are played.

4) Arpeggiations: Learn to arpeggiate your 1/3/5/7 in different neck positions and different fingerings. I sometimes find the hardest thing is to find the easiest fingering for more difficult bass line.

5) Over time you will begin to play notes from the chords, noting where the lines lead, discover passing tones and chord similarities where you can substitute (reharmonize) the chords for different tonal effects.

6) If you can't read standard notation, now is a good time to learn. Basic and intermediate basslines tend to move slower than you would find in lead guitar. Bass music is typically single notes, so unlike piano (or guitar) its easy to decipher visually. There are a lots of downloadable bass sheet music out there. Some have standard and tab notation grouped together. Written music for songs can also help you learn licks and bits and pieces that you can pull out of your quiver. I use tab only to figure out optimal fingerings. As a confession, I consider myself to be a mediocre bass player, but I get gigs BECAUSE I CAN READ!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... But you do you.

 

[Patrice B]

Please forgive me if the stuff below are things you already know. Perhaps someone else can benefit from them (or not).

Method books are a good starting place to get a BASIC start. Several good ones have already been recommended. But there are some elements that I think might want to focus on, if not first, at the same time.

1) Basic bass note essentials. 1a) Learn the notes on the fingerboard at least to the 12th fret, especially the 3rd and 4th strings. 4 string is imperative. If you've been playing guitar, then you probably orient on the low E string which should help you. See "octaves" to help learn the 1st and 2nd strings notes on the FB.

2) Patterns-
Octaves: Starting from the low E, if you move from the 4th down two strings to the 2nd string, then down two frets from wherever you are you will have octaves.
5ths: Often used in combination with the root of a chord as a "power chord" and is important in developing any type of bass line even if you know it's there but don't play it. A 5th is one string higher and two frets down from the root.

3) Learn how to spell all 12 major and 12 minor and 24 major and minor 7th chords. This is essential if a lead sheet gets put in front of you. You can learn 9ths, 10ths, 11ths and 13ths later. After you get the root chords down, then try spelling them as "inversions". Example; C major, root, then "1st inversion"... 1/3/5/(7).... 3/5/(7)/1... then 5/(7)/1/3 [7ths being optional]

3rds: Both major and minor thirds complete "triad" (chord). Very useful as 3rds are often used as "anchor notes" rather than the root (known as 1st inversion)

7ths: Are the "sauce on the spaghetti. Major and minor 7ths really help harmonization as well as help when 7th chords are played.

4) Arpeggiations: Learn to arpeggiate your 1/3/5/7 in different neck positions and different fingerings. I sometimes find the hardest thing is to find the easiest fingering for more difficult bass line.

5) Over time you will begin to play notes from the chords, noting where the lines lead, discover passing tones and chord similarities where you can substitute (reharmonize) the chords for different tonal effects.

6) If you can't read standard notation, now is a good time to learn. Basic and intermediate basslines tend to move slower than you would find in lead guitar. Bass music is typically single notes, so unlike piano (or guitar) its easy to decipher visually. There are a lots of downloadable bass sheet music out there. Some have standard and tab notation grouped together. Written music for songs can also help you learn licks and bits and pieces that you can pull out of your quiver. I use tab only to figure out optimal fingerings. As a confession, I consider myself to be a mediocre bass player, but I get gigs BECAUSE I CAN READ!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... But you do you.

I know what to do in the next weeks and XMas Holydays Been playing for 5 years (notation reading quite good, chords theory, etc…) but I freaking don’t know my notes past the 5th fret… and only realize I hit a bad note past that when my ears tells me it doesn’t fit! Must learn my notes on the fretboard, must learn my notes on the fret board, must…

 

[aprod]

Its all about chord tones.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I agree. However, as a beginner, as we all were once upon a time, I found that encouraging playing largely trumped turning music into an academic exercise. If you’re motivated enough, you’ll get to theory because you’ll want it and will know that you miss it.

Years ago, I played with a wonderfully gifted guitar player, recently deceased, who I wasn’t surprised to learn had been a child prodigy on the instrument.

He told me about his first encounter with his first teacher, while he was still very young, maybe 10 years old. The teacher came in and said, ‘I’ve heard you can play. Play something for me.’

The child ripped through some flashy popular song that showed off his ability and dexterity.

The teacher maintained his composure during the display, and when it was finished, his response was, ‘It’s clear that you already know how to play. Now, I’m going to help you understand what you’re playing.’

Personally, I think it’s one of the wisest things I ever heard of a teacher saying to a student.

Yes, that's the opposite of "don't get bogged down in theory." That's a good teacher giving context to theory, which is exactly how I learned. The whole idea of "academic exercises" seems to be a bunch of people who took 3 lessons when they were 12, hated it, and decided every teacher sucks and therefor all learning is useless.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Play around with playing root notes on the downbeat or one of each measure and a different note on the four of each measure.

If playing over G, C, and D, then play:
G 2 3 B C 2 3 E D 2 3 F G 2 3 D

You will start to hear how the passing notes change the flavor and mood. Use whole steps and half steps to see what they sound like.

Swapping the B in the above chart with a Bb will really sound different.

Some notes work, and some will sound weird, even though in the right context they may be just what you need.

 

[Lamphun_Lamyai]

I'd like to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. It is appreciated.

After playing guitar for a couple of years, what theory I have learned, my ear training, fretboard memorization (which on a six string is still a problem), and scales (from at pattern recognition perspective) are something I am carrying over into my bass practice. I'm in my 70s and memorization in general is an issue - but - I'm a visual learner and pattern recognition still clicks which is useful for scales and knowing where to find scale degrees to any given root note. Easier on the bass as I've got two less strings. Bottom line - I'm still learning and will always be learning as long as I'm sucking air.

There's a lot here to digest, but it is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks kindly! I will put it to use!

 

[Lamphun_Lamyai]

I got pulled away before I finished that.

I'd like to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. It is appreciated.

After playing guitar for a couple of years, what theory I have learned, my ear training, fretboard memorization (which on a six string is still a problem), and scales (from at pattern recognition perspective) are something I am carrying over into my bass practice. I'm in my 70s and memorization in general is an issue - but - I'm a visual learner and pattern recognition still clicks which is useful for scales and knowing where to find scale degrees to any given root note. Easier on the bass as I've got two less strings. Bottom line - I'm still learning and will always be learning as long as I'm sucking air.

There's a lot here to digest - it's a bit like drinking from a firehose - but it is exactly what I was looking for.
I had a good friend years back and we got into a discussion about dealing with massive subjects that can be extremely intricate, and how to deal with them. Music fits that category. There is just sooooo much. Then she posed a question:

Q: "How do you eat an elephant?"
A: One bite at a time.

I'm analytical to a fault. And tenacious. It's really easy for me to get lost in the weeds. But I think I've got a method now and a way of recording my progress.
A day broken into Warm-ups, ear-training, fretboard memorization, practical music theory including finally biting the bullet and learning standard notation as opposed to tab, scales, bass-riff memorization, and if I just have too much on my plate, then drop everything else and pick up the bass and practice songs.

It's kind of strange. I'm playing bass lines for music genres I otherwise would never have listened to - and enjoying it. But I look at the music differently now though the lens of bass lines. I'm appreciating the music itself. Not everything needs to make me head-bang like Hysteria by Muse. Like Gospel or Golden Oldies - stuff I wouldn't give a second thought to before suddenly becomes interesting based on its compositions and musical elements. 6 string guitar was just not doing it for me - but bass! It switched me on like a light.

Thanks kindly! I will put it to good use! Gracias!

 

[Aussie Player]

It can be a lot easier than most indicate.
When you listen to a song, start to invent counter melodies that fit and compiment the main melody, even strengthen it.
The easy way is to sing melodies in your head and the notes will come easier on the fretboard. It works for me and I do it instinctively now.
Not my original idea though, Eric Clapton recited it once in an intervew on how he creates lead solo's, by singing them in his head and his hand finds the notes.

 

[SteveCS]

suddenly becomes interesting based on its compositions and musical elements. 6 string guitar was just not doing it for me - but bass! It switched me on like a light.

 

[Lamphun_Lamyai]

View attachment 7092154

"Beckoned by the bass you are, like whispers of the Force. Pluck and strum, in harmony with its ancient songs, and yours the bass will be."

...and there it is!

 

[turf3]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now. Played guitar for two years before switching over. So at this point, "No" I don't have a lot of experience on bass, but I do have questions about determining bass lines given the chord progressions of songs as I actively listen for the bass line within a song and wonder about how they were originally created.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is. Let's say we have a song with a easy I, IV, V chord progression in the key of C. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

Well now THERE'S an apparently simple question that you can spend a lifetime answering!

 

[turf3]

Bass playing is about generating or supporting a feeling, a vibe. Music theory is great to know and understand, but it does not constitute a set of rules, just explanations for why you hear what you hear. Don’t get too bogged down in theory, but it IS important to know the terms.

As someone intoned earlier, ‘Play it until it sounds good’—or at least gets the feeling you’re attempting to impart to the song.

It’s a process.

Yeah, OK, but it sure is a hell of a lot easier to know what you're doing than to trial-and-error all the possible ways to play something that sounds bad and then hope to hit on the ways that sound good.

Which do you think has a better chance of success: William Shakespeare, or a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters?

 

[SteveCS]

Yeah, OK, but it sure is a hell of a lot easier to know what you're doing than to trial-and-error all the possible ways to play something that sounds bad and then hope to hit on the ways that sound good.

Which do you think has a better chance of success: William Shakespeare, or a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters?

QFT