Question regarding relationship between chords progressions and bass lines

[Lamphun_Lamyai]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now. Played guitar for two years before switching over. So at this point, "No" I don't have a lot of experience on bass, but I do have questions about determining bass lines given the chord progressions of songs as I actively listen for the bass line within a song and wonder about how they were originally created.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is. Let's say we have a song with a easy I, IV, V chord progression in the key of C. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

 

[bholder]

Might be a good start. Generally, try to "weave" the bassline through the chord progression, hitting chord tones on important beats. Roots on the chord beat itself, 3rds, 5ths, and 7ths for "passing tones" to glue the chords together, you're halfway there. Play it until it sounds good, basically.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I use any number of the better chord charts via "Ultimate Guitar" website. They'll frequently include "slash" notations like G/E where the bass plays an E over the G chord and not the root. In the simplest of terms, it re-defines the chord and adds character. It's a great beginner's tool in real-time because you're playing an actual tune.

Riis

 

[hrodbert696]

The most basic thing would be just to "pump the root" of each chord in the progression. In your C-F-G example, bass plays CCCCFFFFGGGG. Lots of successful songs have bass lines that just do that.


Next most simple is the country 1-5. Each chord, you play the root and then the 5th of the scale for the chord. So for CFG, you'd go C, G, C, G, F, C, F, C, G, D, G, D, etc. Sometimes you can invert it or otherwise vary it.


Then there are walking bass lines. The most basic way to do that is to play the 1st, 3rd, and 5th of each chord, so when you're in C, it's C-E-G, then in F you play F-A-C, and so on. Again, you can do variations and inversions and walking bass lines can get all kinds of complex, such as in jazz.




The book @bholder linked is a good place to learn more.

And I guess, there are bass lines that are more counter-melodies in their own right. That's a matter of knowing the notes of the chords through the progression and having your own line through it.



That's probably as much as I could say in a TB post, but it should get you started.

 

[SteveCS]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now. Played guitar for two years before switching over. So at this point, "No" I don't have a lot of experience on bass, but I do have questions about determining bass lines given the chord progressions of songs as I actively listen for the bass line within a song and wonder about how they were originally created.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is. Let's say we have a song with a easy I, IV, V chord progression in the key of C. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

@Lamphun_Lamyai Hi and welcome to Talkbass.

Before doing anything else, I would recommend a method book such as the Hal Leonard Bass Method by Ed Friedland - the 'Complete' edition (ISBN 10 0-7935-6382-8) will keep you busy for a while. I would also recommend getting a book on basic theory and functional harmony. Something like "Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory" (ISBN 13 978-0-88284-897-6)

But to your question :-

In terms of function, the first role of the bass is to provide the 'bottom' of the harmony. For the most part this involves sounding the root of the chord, and often doing so on the downbeat. After that, the bass 'line' typically tries to create motion between the chords without upsetting the harmony*.

Taking your example of a simple I-IV-V progression;

• Line A is a basic but harmonically 'correct' line that simply states the roots of the chords at each change without making any rhythmic implications;
• Line B is similar but adds a second low root note to the V chord. This adds some rhythmic push which, combined with approaching the upcoming C chord from below, creates forward momentum;
• Line C develops the idea further by adding in other Chord Tones - see how bar 9 includes the C, E and G of the C major triad. It then brings in the idea of Resolution - see how in bar 10 there is a step-wise approach (C->D->E) to the F in bar 11. Likewise in bar 11 there is a step-wise approach and resolution onto the root of the G chord in bar 12;
• Line D takes this idea further still, reversing the direction of step-wise motion in bar 14 then using ascending step-wise resolution from G back up to C in bar 16. Ascending resolution (B->C) is typically more powerful and 'final' than descending (D->C);
• Line E includes a bit more rhythmic pulse and also introduces the idea of a melodic descent from F to G in bars 19/20;
• Line F is another possible variation that uses the notion of undulating and ascending lines to anticipate the end. See how the last note in bar 24 is B, which is the 'leading tone' of the key and provides the strongest resolution onto the last C. The last C is doubled in the low octave for even more 'finality', but that's just a matter of taste,

See how in most of these examples the root note of the chord always appears on the beat 1 of the bar. The exception is the last bar of line [E] - Can you hear how this changes the rhythmic and harmonic stability of the line, opening possibilities of going on to a chord other than C, or perhaps delaying the ending like this:

What you will see in all of this is that the bass line is as much about "where are we going?" as it is about "where are we now?".

* To understand how easy it is for the bass to change harmony, think about this. Everyone in the band is playing the notes of a C major chord (C, E, G), then you come along and play a big fat A low in the bass. Suddenly that chord is no longer C major, it is Am7, with no-one else having done anything. So care is needed not the change the chords.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

@Lamphun_Lamyai Hi and welcome to Talkbass.

Before doing anything else, I would recommend a method book such as the Hal Leonard Bass Method by Ed Friedland - the 'Complete' edition (ISBN 10 0-7935-6382-8) will keep you busy for a while. I would also recommend getting a book on basic theory and functional harmony. Something like "Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory" (ISBN 13 978-0-88284-897-6)

But to your question :-

In terms of function, the first role of the bass is to provide the 'bottom' of the harmony. For the most part this involves sounding the root of the chord, and often doing so on the downbeat. After that, the bass 'line' typically tries to create motion between the chords without upsetting the harmony*.

Taking your example of a simple I-IV-V progression;

• Line A is a basic but harmonically 'correct' line that simply states the roots of the chords at each change without making any rhythmic implications;
• Line B is similar but adds a second low root note to the V chord. This adds some rhythmic push which, combined with approaching the upcoming C chord from below, creates forward momentum;
• Line C develops the idea further by adding in other Chord Tones - see how bar 9 includes the C, E and G of the C major triad. It then brings in the idea of Resolution - see how in bar 10 there is a step-wise approach (C->D->E) to the F in bar 11. Likewise in bar 11 there is a step-wise approach and resolution onto the root of the G chord in bar 12;
• Line D takes this idea further still, reversing the direction of step-wise motion in bar 14 then using ascending step-wise resolution from G back up to C in bar 16. Ascending resolution (B->C) is typically more powerful and 'final' than descending (D->C);
• Line E includes a bit more rhythmic pulse and also introduces the idea of a melodic descent from F to G in bars 19/20;
• Line F is another possible variation that uses the notion of undulating and ascending lines to anticipate the end. See how the last note in bar 24 is B, which is the 'leading tone' of the key and provides the strongest resolution onto the last C. The last C is doubled in the low octave for even more 'finality', but that's just a matter of taste,

View attachment 7091392
See how in most of these examples the root note of the chord always appears on the beat 1 of the bar. The exception is the last bar of line [E] - Can you hear how this changes the rhythmic and harmonic stability of the line, opening possibilities of going on to a chord other than C, or perhaps delaying the ending like this:
View attachment 7091396

What you will see in all of this is that the bass line is as much about "where are we going?" as it is about "where are we now?".

* To understand how easy it is for the bass to change harmony, think about this. Everyone in the band is playing the notes of a C major chord (C, E, G), then you come along and play a big fat A low in the bass. Suddenly that chord is no longer C major, it is Am7, with no-one else having done anything. So care is needed not the change the chords.

I recommend stopping here and absorbing this content before moving on.
It's really the blueprint for making basslines and a solid answer to your question.

 

[GaDawg78644]

Check out Ryan Madora on Youtube. She covers that kind of stuff and really helped me

 

[MegaSwing]

Bass playing is about generating or supporting a feeling, a vibe. Music theory is great to know and understand, but it does not constitute a set of rules, just explanations for why you hear what you hear. Don’t get too bogged down in theory, but it IS important to know the terms.

As someone intoned earlier, ‘Play it until it sounds good’—or at least gets the feeling you’re attempting to impart to the song.

It’s a process.

 

[mambo4]

. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

The PDF linked in my signature has a good concise description of the theory required to understand it

Keep in mind that creating a line that "fits" also involves some understanding of various styles.
Rhythm and note choices for a Jazz I VI V will be different than a Funk or Rock I IV V, for example.

 

[retslock]

I've been playing bass for 8 weeks now. Played guitar for two years before switching over. So at this point, "No" I don't have a lot of experience on bass, but I do have questions about determining bass lines given the chord progressions of songs as I actively listen for the bass line within a song and wonder about how they were originally created.

There has to be a relationship between chords and bass lines. I'd like to understand what that relationship is. Let's say we have a song with a easy I, IV, V chord progression in the key of C. C major, F major, G major. How would I approach creating a bass line to "fit" that chord progression. Where do I find information about the theory and technique involved?

Root, third, fifth, sixth and seventh - natural or flattened depending on major or dominant sound mostly depending on type of chord. Chromatic passing notes can work as well also depending on the chord type. Analyse what the bass players you like are doing. Transcribe if you know how. You can learn a lot about phrasing by transcribing. If it sounds good it is good.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Bass playing is about generating or supporting a feeling, a vibe. Music theory is great to know and understand, but it does not constitute a set of rules, just explanations for why you hear what you hear. Don’t get too bogged down in theory, but it IS important to know the terms.

As someone intoned earlier, ‘Play it until it sounds good’—or at least the feeling you’re attempting to impart to the song.

It’s a process.

I disagree completely, especially when talking to a beginner. You're basically saying "Sure people have spent thousands of years developing a detailed manual for how to build a boat, but what the hell, give the kid a pile of lumber and tell him to just keep at it until he gets something that floats."

Music theory isn't about rules to follow, it's about having access to the information to answer questions like the OP's question. "Here are a set of chords, how do I break them down into elements to craft a part without having to wonder which notes do or don't fit each chord?" That's the entire function of theory right there, to give you easy access to those answers.

Theory doesn't say you HAVE to play C, E, and G over C major, but understanding chord theory tells you why those notes sound pleasant and why playing C#, F#, and A# are going to create a real sonic mess when played against said chord. And once you understand the structure then you can learn how to use those other notes. Go listen to Ron Carter walk from C to F to C and I bet you're going to hear F# and C# at some point, because he understands theory at the highest level and it opens up a lot of possibilities to craft truly interesting musical ideas that still fit the chords and song.

Overall, to answer OP's question, nothing beats a teacher. Even the best book won't be able to look at your hands and mention your strap is too long, or ask what your favorite band is and show you a song of theirs that illustrates the concept you're trying to learn. Others have mentioned some great books, but if you can access a good teacher, even virtually, you are likely to progress much faster and with greater depth of understanding.

 

[Liam Wald]

There is no simple answer or magic formula.
As mentioned above it depends on the style/genre of the composition, but it is really about understanding how chords are constructed and how modes and harmonization can be applied.

 

[Liam Wald]

I disagree completely, especially when talking to a beginner. You're basically saying "Sure people have spent thousands of years developing a detailed manual for how to build a boat, but what the hell, give the kid a pile of lumber and tell him to just keep at it until he gets something that floats."

Music theory isn't about rules to follow, it's about having access to the information to answer questions like the OP's question. "Here are a set of chords, how do I break them down into elements to craft a part without having to wonder which notes do or don't fit each chord?" That's the entire function of theory right there, to give you easy access to those answers.

Theory doesn't say you HAVE to play C, E, and G over C major, but understanding chord theory tells you why those notes sound pleasant and why playing C#, F#, and A# are going to create a real sonic mess when played against said chord. And once you understand the structure then you can learn how to use those other notes. Go listen to Ron Carter walk from C to F to C and I bet you're going to hear F# and C# at some point, because he understands theory at the highest level and it opens up a lot of possibilities to craft truly interesting musical ideas that still fit the chords and song.

Overall, to answer OP's question, nothing beats a teacher. Even the best book won't be able to look at your hands and mention your strap is too long, or ask what your favorite band is and show you a song of theirs that illustrates the concept you're trying to learn. Others have mentioned some great books, but if you can access a good teacher, even virtually, you are likely to progress much faster and with greater depth of understanding.

I somewhat agree with what you say, however discarding too much theory will have you wasting a lot of time re-inventing the wheel.

 

[bherman]

Lots of good advice posted already, I would reinforce the suggestion to get the Hal Leonard Method Book, it will help you in a logical path and will help with learning to read bass clef, which I highly recommend.

Only thing that I would add to the above - there's a reason that most arpeggios contain the notes of the chords I-III-V-VII, as do most bass lines in some manner or other.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

1. Don’t overplay the notes. Bass is basically the root with fills.
2. See #1
Look at this video. One of the best on basic bass playing. It may answer one of your questions.

 

[KenSmithFan]

Step 1 - learn your scales
Step 2 - learn your arpeggios
Step 3 - transcribe bass lines and write the chords on over the transcription. That will not only tell you what you can play under a chord, but how to get from one chord to another.

This can be done simultaneously. You don’t need to know all your scales before your chords and both before transcribing.

It ain’t rocket science, but it takes a lot of effort. Also, get a good teacher. They can knock years off the learning curve.

 

[HolmeBass]

I recommend stopping here and absorbing this content before moving on.
It's really the blueprint for making basslines and a solid answer to your question.

Seriously, there’s at least 6 months of ideas to progress through.

Also keep listening to different kinds of music and listen for how the bass works. The same chord progression in a country song or a funk song could have drastically different bass lines.

 

[Square]

Search “Talking Bass” on YouTube. Lots of material on this in his videos and the topics he covers are done very well.

 

[Boundary Effect]

Agree on the Ed Friedlander book. Very generally, music is about strong notes and weak notes as well as suspension and resolve. The strongest note is the root of the chord and particularly when playing the tonic chord's root note, because it is the definitive place to resolve.

Take the song Soulshine - Allman Bros. Key of Bb: Bb=I, Eb=IV, F=V. Also; Gm=vi and Ab=VII. Listen from the intro through the end of the first chorus. That last measure of the chorus is a big payoff, the big resolve. It's really the whole song and the rest is an embellishment including a bridge section.

Listen to just the chorus. It is eight bars and has two phrases in it where each phrase is I-V-IV-I. Even though the phases/chords are the same, the first phrase ends weak compared to the second. Why? On the last chord, the I or Bb, the bass plays root or Bb but then drops to the F. That F is the third degree of the Bb triad the rest of the band is playing. It's also deceptive because it suggests a V chord.

Listen to the verse. It sets up the chorus beautifully. It's eight bars with four phrases. The chords in the first three phrases are I-V-IV-I, same as chorus. The first phrase is strong. The second phrase is weaker because of that rhythm surprise where it jumps to the I on the 2+beat rather then the 3 beat, and again the bass drops down lightly to the V degree - F - like in the chorus.. The third phrase is the same as the first. Then the fourth and final phrase is the weakest of all, which sets up the chorus. It's weak because it walks up from V to vi to VII, no resolve. You're left hanging for the chorus.

Suspension, resolve. The bass may only play one note (typically), but the power it has to shape the song is immense. Listening exercises include listening for tension and resolve, listen for passing tones - ways the bass gets from here to there.

Soulshine

 

[MegaSwing]

I disagree completely, especially when talking to a beginner. You're basically saying "Sure people have spent thousands of years developing a detailed manual for how to build a boat, but what the hell, give the kid a pile of lumber and tell him to just keep at it until he gets something that floats."

Music theory isn't about rules to follow, it's about having access to the information to answer questions like the OP's question. "Here are a set of chords, how do I break them down into elements to craft a part without having to wonder which notes do or don't fit each chord?" That's the entire function of theory right there, to give you easy access to those answers.

Theory doesn't say you HAVE to play C, E, and G over C major, but understanding chord theory tells you why those notes sound pleasant and why playing C#, F#, and A# are going to create a real sonic mess when played against said chord. And once you understand the structure then you can learn how to use those other notes. Go listen to Ron Carter walk from C to F to C and I bet you're going to hear F# and C# at some point, because he understands theory at the highest level and it opens up a lot of possibilities to craft truly interesting musical ideas that still fit the chords and song.

Overall, to answer OP's question, nothing beats a teacher. Even the best book won't be able to look at your hands and mention your strap is too long, or ask what your favorite band is and show you a song of theirs that illustrates the concept you're trying to learn. Others have mentioned some great books, but if you can access a good teacher, even virtually, you are likely to progress much faster and with greater depth of understanding.

I agree. However, as a beginner, as we all were once upon a time, I found that encouraging playing largely trumped turning music into an academic exercise. If you’re motivated enough, you’ll get to theory because you’ll want it and will know that you miss it.

Years ago, I played with a wonderfully gifted guitar player, recently deceased, who I wasn’t surprised to learn had been a child prodigy on the instrument.

He told me about his first encounter with his first teacher, while he was still very young, maybe 10 years old. The teacher came in and said, ‘I’ve heard you can play. Play something for me.’

The child ripped through some flashy popular song that showed off his ability and dexterity.

The teacher maintained his composure during the display, and when it was finished, his response was, ‘It’s clear that you already know how to play. Now, I’m going to help you understand what you’re playing.’

Personally, I think it’s one of the wisest things I ever heard of a teacher saying to a student.