Questions about the Early 70s Muscle Car Experience

[SgtHulka]

Some of you guys are probably the perfect age where you were about twenty when 1970 hit so I'm sure to get some good advice here. It must have been an interesting time when cars were finally being built for speed.

I absolutely love the styling of many of these cars during that era and I've just closed the deal of a lifetime and I'm looking to finally buy a muscle car. I've been looking at a 70 Chevelle, a 73 Plymouth Duster and a 73 Pontiac GTO, the Judge model. There are lots of good-looking rebuilds out there with a variety of different traits quality and pricing. I plan to make it my weekend driver.

I really like the 70 SS Chevelle , with the 454 big block engine. Man I just love that crackle from the exhaust. I have seen some with the original 350 engine, but because of the weight of those cars, I've read that it's not enough power. Is that the case? I know it will still have nice pickup, but not the kind of power and crackle that I think I'm looking for. Also many of the examples I'm seeing have automatic transmissions, sometimes only three speed. Does it not make any sense at all to buy a car with that size engine only to make it an automatic? Is it lame to buy an automatic car like this?

The GTO came with a 400 cubic inch engine and sounds pretty nasty, and even the 340 on the Duster sounds pretty good though still I'm worried about the power and the experience. I believe those put out mid 250 horsepower Max. I found a beautiful example of a Chevelle thats comes with an LS2 Corvette engine, and that sounded bad ass also but is it a bad investment to buy an older car like that that doesn't have the original engine or at least a rebuild of the original engine? The positives on this particular car is that those Corvette engines are pretty reliable and 400 + pounds of torque and horsepower isn't too bad.

And while I have the money, I'm not trying to go nuts here, I want to still buy for value and perhaps some appreciation. The 70 Chevelles w the 454 are almost double (50K) the Duster and GTO (25k) for a good specimen. I realize the Chevelle is legendary though. Most of what I seen seems to have period correct trimmings outside of additional gauges in the dash... like upholstery redone to look exactly like the original, excetera.

If you guys were looking for a car like this, and were me, what direction would you go? What would you look for? And also please feel free to make other car suggestions!

 

[Guild B301]

The GTO Judge. In my opinion it will hold its value better, but that is absolutely not the only consideration. It's just probably the most highly regarded amongst people who aren't into muscle cars. Suggestion- For a less money you can probably get a more unknown model that my parents used to own: a 1969 Ford Fairlane body or Torino body 428 CobraJet. It used to outrun SuperSports every day. My dad used to just shake his head 'no' and laugh when they wanted to race him, because he knew he would win and that it just wasn't worth it. My mom used to drive me to school every day in it. It was an automatic. By the way, I'm much younger than someone who was 20 when these cars were new.

 

[SgtHulka]

The GTO Judge. In my opinion it will hold its value better, but that is absolutely not the only consideration. It's just probably the most highly regarded amongst people who aren't into muscle cars. Suggestion- For a less money you can probably get a more unknown model that my parents used to own: a 1969 Ford Fairlane body or Torino body 428 CobraJet. It used to outrun SuperSports every day. My dad used to just shake his head 'no' and laugh when they wanted to race him, because he knew he would win and that it just wasn't worth it. My mom used to drive me to school every day in it. It was an automatic. By the way, I'm much younger than someone who was 20 when these cars were new.View attachment 3795974

NICE and the GTO is damn sexy also.

 

[RedVee]

Some of you guys are probably the perfect age where you were about twenty when 1970 hit so I'm sure to get some good advice here. It must have been an interesting time when cars were finally being built for speed.

I absolutely love the styling of many of these cars during that era and I've just closed the deal of a lifetime and I'm looking to finally buy a muscle car. I've been looking at a 70 Chevelle, a 73 Plymouth Duster and a 73 Pontiac GTO, the Judge model. There are lots of good-looking rebuilds out there with a variety of different traits quality and pricing. I plan to make it my weekend driver.

I really like the 70 SS Chevelle , with the 454 big block engine. Man I just love that crackle from the exhaust. I have seen some with the original 350 engine, but because of the weight of those cars, I've read that it's not enough power. Is that the case? I know it will still have nice pickup, but not the kind of power and crackle that I think I'm looking for. Also many of the examples I'm seeing have automatic transmissions, sometimes only three speed. Does it not make any sense at all to buy a car with that size engine only to make it an automatic? Is it lame to buy an automatic car like this?

The GTO came with a 400 cubic inch engine and sounds pretty nasty, and even the 340 on the Duster sounds pretty good though still I'm worried about the power and the experience. I believe those put out mid 250 horsepower Max. I found a beautiful example of a Chevelle thats comes with an LS2 Corvette engine, and that sounded bad ass also but is it a bad investment to buy an older car like that that doesn't have the original engine or at least a rebuild of the original engine? The positives on this particular car is that those Corvette engines are pretty reliable and 400 + pounds of torque and horsepower isn't too bad.

And while I have the money, I'm not trying to go nuts here, I want to still buy for value and perhaps some appreciation. The 70 Chevelles w the 454 are almost double (50K) the Duster and GTO (25k) for a good specimen. I realize the Chevelle is legendary though. Most of what I seen seems to have period correct trimmings outside of additional gauges in the dash... like upholstery redone to look exactly like the original, excetera.

If you guys were looking for a car like this, and were me, what direction would you go? What would you look for? And also please feel free to make other car suggestions!

View attachment 3795967

I'd go for that ^ blue Chevelle SS, but I could really be tempted by an Olds 442 or a Pontiac GTO or Firebird 400.

If I may throw a left field suggestion out.... maybe have a look at an AMC AMX or Javelin

 

[hbarcat]

An example from each of the Big 3 automakers:



-- Buick Gran Sport 455 Stage1.

Not as sought after as the GTO, Chevelle, or 442 (also not as horribly expensive) they had more torque than the 426 hemi in a vehicle that's typically a few hundred pounds lighter. The 455 exhaust note is unforgettable.


-- Ford Torino GT

Available big block options were a 390, 427, and 428 Cobra Jet. And they have a unique look that is sexy and iconic at the same time.


-- Dodge Demon/Plymouth Duster

While only available with a small block (340 or 360), they're actually quick and nimble because they weigh only 3,000 lbs. Plus they're still pretty affordable compared with a lot of other collectable muscle cars from that era.

 

[catcauphonic]

It wasn't until 1988-90 that I myself had a 1972 Pontiac Lemans that I wrecked followed by a 72 GTO that somebody else hit on the highway, but this thread really brought back memories of my dad who passed in 2012...

I was only 8 months old when the calander year flipped to 1970. My dad was about 22 then and he was a gear head since his teens, coming home with a different muscle car sometimes more than once a year. I was still a tot and I have only the slightest memories of all his mostly Dodges, Plymouth, Pontiacs, and Chevys.

My mom had already put the kaibash on his street racing days with his like-minded pals when I was in her belly. She continued to let him trade in and get the cars he really wanted every year after I was born, until around 1975... when I burned my skinny little leg getting into his latest (and only) Corvette, as the US Muscle cars were slightly past their prime by then.

I remember he'd tell me over and over not to step on the side pipes cuz they were extremely hot. Being that I was an oblivious and self centered child like most are at the age of 6, I stepped on them every time I got in, and he'd have a mini conniption (mostly worried that I would bend them), and my mom would tell him to "calm down, he's just a kid!"

One day wearing shorts my foot slipped and I screamed and cried in the small back seat as my shin did in fact get a good sizzling.

Within a week my mom made him get rid of the Vette with side pipes in favor of something bigger and boxier with 4 doors that wasn't nearly as fast

Thanks for bringing back that memory

 

[charlie monroe]

Be careful when buying a Chevelle SS.
I'd bet that the one you are looking at is a clone, and not a SuperSport. When you start talking about original 350's, you are not in SS territory. You need to do a lot more research before you deserve to touch a check book. 50k is a long dollar and you'd better be better informed than you are now.

There was some nice hyperbole about GTO's earlier in the thread, but I'm not convinced that any of it applies to a 1973.

A Duster is a fun car, but do not consider it an investment.

Not sure why you picked 1970 and newer. I covet a whole bunch of 67-69 models far more than 70-72's. A couple of 1965-66's rank higher as well.

 

[biguglyman]

If I may throw a left field suggestion out.... maybe have a look at an AMC AMX or Javelin

Best car I ever owned was a '72 Javelin. Loved that car. That Duster might have "only" a 340, but it may be a "6 pack" model. (Three two barrel carbs) They were pretty quick. Remember too the big blocks are much heavier...

 

[Downunderwonder]

It wasn't until 1988-90 that I myself had a 1972 Pontiac Lemans that I wrecked followed by a 72 GTO that somebody else hit on the highway, but this thread really brought back memories of my dad who passed in 2012...

I was only 8 months old when the calander year flipped to 1970. My dad was about 22 then and he was a gear head since his teens, coming home with a different muscle car sometimes more than once a year. I was still a tot and I have only the slightest memories of all his mostly Dodges, Plymouth, Pontiacs, and Chevys.

My mom had already put the kaibash on his street racing days with his like-minded pals when I was in her belly. She continued to let him trade in and get the cars he really wanted every year after I was born, until around 1975... when I burned my skinny little leg getting into his latest (and only) Corvette, as the US Muscle cars were slightly past their prime by then.

I remember he'd tell me over and over not to step on the side pipes cuz they were extremely hot. Being that I was an oblivious and self centered child like most are at the age of 6, I stepped on them every time I got in, and he'd have a mini conniption (mostly worried that I would bend them), and my mom would tell him to "calm down, he's just a kid!"

One day wearing shorts my foot slipped and I screamed and cried in the small back seat as my shin did in fact get a good sizzling.

Within a week my mom made him get rid of the Vette with side pipes in favor of something bigger and boxier with 4 doors that wasn't nearly as fast

Thanks for bringing back that memory

no scar no sizzle. Pic needed

 

[Mike N]

Of the three, I'd take the Chevelle.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Just like a bass, don't buy it for an "investment". Buy it because you want to drive it.

As to horsepower, unless you are taking my it on the strip, any of those have more than enough power. I pass trucks on the highway in my 40hp Karmann Ghia. Cars had less crap to suck up power.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I'd go for that ^ blue Chevelle SS, but I could really be tempted by an Olds 442 or a Pontiac GTO or Firebird 400.

If I may throw a left field suggestion out.... maybe have a look at an AMC AMX or Javelin

you mean like this? 320HP, 430ft/lbs and only weighs 3000lbs! 2 seater with 4 on the floor Hurst from the factory...very well kept secret...

 

[pappabass]

Some of you guys are probably the perfect age where you were about twenty when 1970 hit so I'm sure to get some good advice here. It must have been an interesting time when cars were finally being built for speed.

I really like the 70 SS Chevelle , with the 454 big block engine. Man I just love that crackle from the exhaust. I have seen some with the original 350 engine, but because of the weight of those cars, I've read that it's not enough power. Is that the case?

View attachment 3795967

NO !! not the case, I had a '69 factory SS 4speed. Originally it was 396 version, had been swapped with a 350. It was a screamer. It did need a little better gear for better take-off. Remember that the chevelle/malibu was the most used body for racecars back in the 60's & 70's I remember going to the racetrack in the 70's & watching the Allisons & Bonnett drive chevelles. Especially the mid 60's models. Still plenty of pro-stock drag racers use them. That is why there are not so many around. 454 is a big lower rpm motor. Where the small blocks you can twist them tight. I had a 74 camaro that had a 30 over 350, I would let off at 145MPH, still climbing. I could hold it at 6500RPM. That is pretty good for a street motor.

 

[SgtHulka]

Be careful when buying a Chevelle SS.
I'd bet that the one you are looking at is a clone, and not a SuperSport. When you start talking about original 350's, you are not in SS territory. You need to do a lot more research before you deserve to touch a check book. 50k is a long dollar and you'd better be better informed than you are now.

There was some nice hyperbole about GTO's earlier in the thread, but I'm not convinced that any of it applies to a 1973.

A Duster is a fun car, but do not consider it an investment.

Not sure why you picked 1970 and newer. I covet a whole bunch of 67-69 models far more than 70-72's. A couple of 1965-66's rank higher as well.

Any suggestions? I am admittedly not experienced.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

My brother had a 70 Chevelle SS in the 80's. Stupid fast car, heavy as all h e double hockey sticks.
Towed it from Canada to a shop in Georgia to have the engine re-built. Compression was so high as a result, he was looking at aviation fuel to run it!
Did I mention stupid fast?
After getting married and a baby on the way, it was time to sell. He replaced the Chevelle with a Pontiac Grand National, family car as it had four doors! That thing was faster than the Chevelle!
If it were me, I would look for a Grand National. Turbo 6 cylinder, check it out.
Fishheadjoe

 

[pappabass]

Be careful when buying a Chevelle SS.
I'd bet that the one you are looking at is a clone, and not a SuperSport. When you start talking about original 350's, you are not in SS territory. You need to do a lot more research before you deserve to touch a check book. 50k is a long dollar and you'd better be better informed than you are now.
l.

This is correct. The ""SS" chevelles had the bigger motors, like a 396 or 454. My "SS" had SS emblems on the seats, door panels, dash, etc. Which is easily replicated now days. Mine originally had a 396. You can run the VIN and it will state it. Sometimes the seller is upfront with the clone. Sometimes they may not know or other times they are scamming you. I would buy a clone in a minute if it was 'clone' price. You dont want to throw down $40K+ for a chevelle, take to a car show, & the chevelle guru says "nice clone'

 

[mikeoso]

OK, so...I'm the generation you're looking for, born in '49, and was a high school street racer. First, limiting to the three you listed: eliminate the Duster. They were at best a junior muscle car, really what was called at the time a "pony car", mostly for the people who couldn't afford a Hemi or 440. The Goat and Chevelle are both iconic, assuming that the Chev is really a SS. But as has been mentioned, the late 60s were really prime time for these cars. By the early 70s, especially the GTO was looking pretty generic.

Now, here's the question: what are you actually after here? Are you going to race? Are you looking for image and feeling? Are you wanting a reliable no-trouble driver with vintage cool factor? Again, among just those three, I'd go for the Chevelle, IF it's really SS and IF it's really sound. I say this as a life-long Mopar guy. If I were going shopping, I'd be hunting a late 60s hemi-Charger.

 

[hbarcat]

Any suggestions? I am admittedly not experienced.

If you want to get into buying and owning a genuine collectible '65 -- '75 muscle car in good condition then you really need to know exactly what you're doing or you'll be quickly flushing tens of thousands of dollars down the toilet.

There is so much specialized knowledge you need to have that it takes decades, rather than years, to accumulate.

The best advice I could give you would be to join a car club and participate regularly, cultivate a friendship with an expert, and start reading up on everything you can find on the subject.

Keep this in mind -- pretty much every bargain is long gone. If you find a genuinely collectible car for sale in good condition then it's automatically going to be very expensive. If you see one that's advertised as a very desirable muscle car that just needs "a little bit of work" and its asking price is suspiciously low, that's because it's really going to take a fortune to bring it back to life.

What was said earlier about "clones" is important. The cars you said you're interested in are valuable because of their historical significance, more than anything. You'll find a great many of these cars that have been modified from original, often with different engines or other major components which will destroy the dollar value of the vehicle.

 

[kesslari]

I was still a kid (born in '61) but IMO '72 was the last year of great American muscle cars. GM, at least, took a big downturn in quality in '73, with perhaps the early Trans Am being excepted - possibly. (All IMO of course). My mom had a '69 442 convertible that would crease your pants with the acceleration (not that she used it). I learned to drive in that car and I still wonder how I survived - did some crazy, crazy stuff. Fun times.
I still think the '69 model year was the best looking.
(not her car, but pretty close).

 

[charlie monroe]

Any suggestions? I am admittedly not experienced.

What is the endgame?

Sunday afternoon rides? Frying the rubber off the rears? Entering the community car shows or joining the local club?

Your budget is really healthy, the hive mind will help find you the perfect model.