Questions on learning a song

[4dog]

Repetition is key...but when I've encountered this problem, I write down the lyrics and attach a bass line with the lyric line. If it's during a break or lead....repeat, repeat, repeat!

bingo!!!

 

[SteveCS]

I 100% agree that understanding from a compositional is important, both in learning an existing piece, when writing a part for a new piece or in improvisation, but it doesn't help in execution. It's no good knowing what notes to play if you don't know where to find them on the fingerboard.

So I dont think its a case of either/or...

Instead of ...

...more a case of aiming to do both.
YMMV.

 

[fhm555]

Forget the note for note method, rote is where it’s at.

 

[Mushroo]

I'll leave you with a final piece of advice from my teacher. It's served me very well as I try to improve my ear training (I'm really not good at it; it's hard work for me!) and song-learning skills.

His advice is to choose songs that I can realistically learn in one practice session. This is a good pace that builds a real sense of confidence and progress. If a song takes me (for example) an entire week to learn, then it is too difficult for my current skill set, so I set it aside for later and learn an easier song today. A really common mistake that students make, is to choose songs that are too difficult for them, because they like the song. This is where a good teacher comes in really handy, because a teacher can recommend songs to learn that are a perfect fit for each student's current skill set.

I should add that when I'm learning an entire song in one practice session, I'm not necessarily learning the song note-for-note (as is your goal with Rooster) unless it is a very easy song. Rather, my goal would be to learn the song good enough that I could give a performance on stage without embarrassing myself. I wouldn't transcribe the entire song but if the song has a signature 4- or 8-bar bass line, I would transcribe that.

 

[SteveCS]

Rooster, Alice in Chains

I know you are looking for note-for-note, but it seems to me that there are as many variants on the bass part as there are live versions of the song available on YouTube. Other than the descending chromatic sequences that need to be closely coordinated with the guitar, I would say you've plenty of latitude for 'interpretation' without in any way compromising the essence of the song. I would be more inclined to focus on structure and arrangement rather than losing too much sleep over missing the odd grace notes or syncopated rests etc. from the studio version that seem to just make 'guest appearances' in the different live versions.
YMMV.

 

[46and2]

Thank you all for the advice. I've gotten the song "working" over the last few days, in the sense that I know all of the lines/fills and can insert them into spots where they fit. While I cannot play it exactly as recorded on Dirt, I can play a version that would go over well live, even if not for a tribute band.

I did it by using several of your suggestions. First off, I just played the song a ton of times. I played it with my transcription in front me, reading the whole time. Then I'd play just the intro up to the first verse without looking, and looked at the rest.

 

[bfields]

One thing I've found I have to be careful of: I can't just depend just on "muscle memory" from having played through a bunch of times. The problem is that if I get distracted or make a mistake somewhere in the middle, I need to know how to get back on track. Possible things that can help: make sure you've also got the form memorized (verse/chorus/verse, chord progressions, etc.); test yourself to see if you can play from memory starting from random points in the middle instead of always practicing from the beginning to the end.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thank you all for the advice. I've gotten the song "working" over the last few days, in the sense that I know all of the lines/fills and can insert them into spots where they fit. While I cannot play it exactly as recorded on Dirt, I can play a version that would go over well live, even if not for a tribute band.

I did it by using several of your suggestions. First off, I just played the song a ton of times. I played it with my transcription in front me, reading the whole time. Then I'd play just the intro up to the first verse without looking, and looked at the rest.

I think that you'll find learning something note-for-note is a useful exercise, in the sense that it will give you some real ideas about how one pro put something together, and this adds tools to your toolbox. That's why I would never advise anyone to just get it "good enough" but do advise that once you really know all the parts and how they piece together you'll be free to relax and rearrange them in ways that work best for you.

I recently had to learn a song with a (for me) complicated bass line and I only had a couple of days. After I learned all the parts I realized that in order to make it work for the performance, I could really just substitute in two variations throughout the whole song. That way the song sounded right and I minimized the risk of messing it up on short notice. But I don't feel like I wasted time learning all those other parts. One of these days I'll add them in.

 

[fretlessbass]

Lots of good advice here; I would add one specific suggestion re repitition, so that you don't pull your hair out over this:
It's always more productive to practice a piece LESS times, over MORE days, than MORE times, over LESS days.
Be dispassionate while learning a part:
Even if you struggle on any given day, set a resonable time limit, or repetition limit, to be followed each day--then stick to it.
By doing that, you'll remove much of the performance anxiety that gets in the way of your brain absorbing the material.
Being dispassionate--methodical-- while learning makes it a helluva lot easier to be passionate as hell while performing!

 

[Lunatique]

I agree with the advice of repetition and incrementally memorizing a song by a couple of measures at a time. That's exactly how I do it too. But I'll add this extremely helpful software that I use for learning new songs:

Transcribe! - software to help transcribe recorded music

I can sing all kinds of praises about it, but I'll just let you download the demo and see for yourself how incredibly useful it is.

I basically take a new song into Transcribe! and then create loops of the different sections of the song in "FX" / "Misc." I can then just loop those parts to learn them by using the different speeds (you can use the preset speeds as well as type in any number you want). If there's one very difficult transition or run or whatever that's very hard to make out what the notes are, I'd create a loop of just that part and slow it down, as well as use the EQ tool to filter out all other distracting sounds and isolate just the bass notes. As I progress in learning the song, I would update a loop that contains all the parts I've learned so far, and keep practicing that loop, until the loop expands to contain the entire song.

Here are some screenshots to show you how I use the software:

Transcribe! is the single most useful software for learning new songs I've ever come across. It would be a lot more complex/time-consuming if I didn't have Transcribe! You could probably customize a template in your chosen DAW and do something similar (assuming you have a plugin that can slow down tempo and still keep the pitch correct and decent fidelity), but Transcribe is so streamlined for this exact purpose and it's so reasonably priced that you might as well just use it instead. It has many other features I don't use (such as identify chords, melodies, and so on).

 

[Yellow Bang66]

I learn (and memorize) new songs (and sometimes new arrangements or keys of songs I've done before) every week for church gigs. While I work with charts, my process would work the same regardless of what the documentation is you're starting with.

1) Make sure what you've got is good. Run through it a few times to make sure you've got the part right.

2) As soon as you can, start looking away from the paper - a phrase here or there, where you know it, then half the chorus, the the other half, then the verse, finally the bridge, intros, etc. - the goal is to keep running through the piece, and withdraw the need for the paper, but keep (and polish) the performance. In my practice sessions a couple days at an hour a two a piece, and I've got the piece memorized, the rest of the week is polishing; sometimes adding little nuances that I didn't hear the first few times through.

The more you do this, the better you get at it. If you're playing a lot of stuff from any one genre, you'll find a lot of things that a lot of the songs have in common, and that speeds things up considerably.

If I have a week with a lot of tough music in it, I'll be listening to the music going to and from work in the car (my commute is an hour each way). That helps internalize things as well, especially if you're visualizing yourself playing the notes while listening.

Excellent advice in this article! i agree with listening to song over & over & over,charting helps a lot. also being able to hum out the parts really helps me.

My good friend (guitarist/singer) once gave me a funny tip. He nick names his "licks" with ridiculous names like "schmengie, dingy or slide thingy". it made it fun & easy to remember repetitive parts. I would comment "that's a cool lick!" and he'd say that's a schmengie!". so I adopted this silly habit too. because I would get easily lost playing some long"boring/repetitive blues progression/turnaround (no offense).
I found it easier if I would say to myself "this time; 2 schmengies & 1 short slide, next 2 dinglies & long slide thingy". rather than 1,5,4,1 or 1,5,2,1. yes it's silly, but it works! plus it cracked me up when my buddy would say "hey it's 2 schmengies,not 1! and the rest of the band would just be confused!!
yes, its silly but i never messed up that song at a gig. I just had silly grin while playing that song. It really helped keep track of where i was in the song too.GL

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Very good tips in here... #1 takeaway: "Critical Listening"

How to Learn a Song Like a Nashville Pro