Quilter Bass Block

[SickAura]

Just IMO / IME, but I don't actually think there is any "grit" in the BB. I think it is a clean amp all the way.

For me, the gain is absolutely super clean from about 0-5/6.

From about 5/6-7/8, you start getting compression, and that starts to squash the signal and bring out the mids and other frequencies that your ear hears as more gritty. IMO, it is the way your ear hears that louder and more compressed sound that makes you think of "break up."

After about 7/8, the gain is unusable for me. Past that point, there is some kind of "break up" but it is not an intentional musical break up. It sounds like nothing I've ever heard before. Very square clipping, and more like an electronic noise than some kind of intentional "overdrive" to be used as a tone device.

The Mesa D800 or TH500 are designed to have break up in the gain control. They both have clip lights, and both companies say it's fine to drive the amp so that light comes on (if it's not 100% of the time). I don't think the BB800 is designed for that. I think the "limiting" that you hit as you really crank the gain is designed to manage the power and let you get LOUD without feeling like the amp is bottoming out and running out of juice.
I've never seen anything in the Quilter literature to indicate that the amp is supposed to break up. Everything from the company is about big, clean power in any situation, at any volume.

I think the power section is pretty much all clean - like a pro-audio power amp.

Just my impression. I'm using a passive J bass, so not super hot output. Again, IMO / IME. Interested to hear what others think.

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I don't have a SL Olympic, but I've read a bunch about them, and watched a ton of demos. I don't get the impression that it's by any means designed to be a "clean" pre-amp.

How do you have the "Gain" on the Olympic set? All the way off?

I agree. I always kind of scratched my head about the gritty breakup comments.
I find it very clean but i also haven't experimented much with the Gain above 2 o'clock so I thought it was just me.
The limiter does push out a very appealing tone to me that is hard to describe. So maybe Grit is an easy word to use?

But when I want some grit I kick on the Porkloin - which is almost all the time. When I want more Grit I add the VMT.

 

[Bassometer]

There is definitely a bit of grit on the open E with the gain at 7 with a passive P. Not a lot but a bit and it sounds good.

 

[Low Class]

No grit with this rig. Nothing but CLEAN! Quilter w/2 EA NL112's.

 

[Bassometer]

Now I am worried, maybe I have a bad driver in my 12/6?

 

[Mushroo]

I agree. I always kind of scratched my head about the gritty breakup comments.

My initial impression of the BB800 as having a gritty/distorted sound was due to a specific sequence of actions on my part. Pat Quilter himself personally helped me to understand what I was doing "wrong." (It's actually only "wrong" if you don't like the sound!)

In the past, with other brands of amp, I've typically "dialed in my tone" as follows: I start with the Master set quite low. Then I use the preamp controls to get my desired tone. Finally, I increase the Master until my rig is putting out the desired volume.

The Quilter BB800 doesn't work like that. The Gain and Master controls are interactive. You can't just set a good tone with the preamp and then use the Master to make that same sound louder/softer without changing the tone.

@Low Class says his BB800 is "nothing but CLEAN!" but looking at his photo, I see his Master is up around 200 watts. I bet if he maxxed the gain and dropped the Master to about 40 watts, he'd hear the "grit."

A final comment is that, to my ear, the grittiness/distortion can be a little obnoxious listening through the headphone jack, but mellows out considerably when rocking into a tweeterless cabinet.

 

[Low Class]

@Low Class says his BB800 is "nothing but CLEAN!" but looking at his photo, I see his Master is up around 200 watts. I bet if he maxxed the gain and dropped the Master to about 40 watts, he'd hear the "grit."
.

I'm not looking for grit and I doubt you'd find hardly any EA cab users looking for grit.

 

[Low Class]

@Low Class says his BB800 is "nothing but CLEAN!" but looking at his photo, I see his Master is up around 200 watts. I bet if he maxxed the gain and dropped the Master to about 40 watts, he'd hear the "grit."
.

Just out of curiosity I tried this. Gain wide open, bass all the way up, and then starting turning up the volume. First click there was some distortion, but when I got to the 2nd or 3rd click it cleaned up quickly. And that was not even half way to the 40 watt point.

 

[Mushroo]

Just out of curiosity I tried this. Gain wide open, bass all the way up, and then starting turning up the volume. First click there was some distortion, but when I got to the 2nd or 3rd click it cleaned up quickly. And that was not even half way to the 40 watt point.

Makes sense to me (and fits with my experience). Lots of TBers and historical bassists gigging with 20-50 watt tube amps. Pat Quilter probably intended that "first click" to sound like playing your bass through some tiny 5w amp, pushed really hard. I see this as a "feature not a bug" and another example of Quilter's attention to detail. As you point out, it cleans up quickly, and by the time you reach 40w it is sonic bliss.

As an aside, I've noticed my 101 Mini in the "Tweed" setting sounds (intentionally, by design) like a smaller, open-back combo amp. It has less bass response and overdrives more easily. Furthermore I can hear this difference in tone even when I bypass the preamp and run my pedalboard into the 101's effects return. Quilter is onto some real magic with the interactions between the preamp and poweramp sections.

 

[hennessybass]

Makes sense to me (and fits with my experience). Lots of TBers and historical bassists gigging with 20-50 watt tube amps. Pat Quilter probably intended that "first click" to sound like playing your bass through some tiny 5w amp, pushed really hard. I see this as a "feature not a bug" and another example of Quilter's attention to detail. As you point out, it cleans up quickly, and by the time you reach 40w it is sonic bliss.

Interesting stuff. I'm going to have play around with mine a bit. I just kind of thought that the gain was not really usable past about 8... but I'm gonna give it another go.

 

[donahue]

AB'd the BB800 against my Peavey VB-2 (all tube) tonight. With the BB gain between 7 and 8 and master on 40w it sounds like a pushed tube amp to me. Any higher on the master is getting too loud for my house. Almost into gig volume.

IME it's a persons playing style that brings out the "grit" not necessarily the amp, but with those settings and an aggressive style there is definitely grit to be had . As stated above it probably comes from the enhanced mids and the limiter from having the gain turned up. Bounce the strings around good and I get this cool harmonic "grit" I'd call it. As much as I would want without having help from a pedal.

It's all about the gain control. Roll it back to 4 or 5 and I get airy vintage round tone again. But up between 7 and 8 is my sweet spot for pushed tube tone. IMO above 8 is just too much of a good thing however.

I did this comparison to see if I could sub my all tube and play a metal gig with the BB800. With the BB800 and a B3K to add some sizzle and clank to the above settings I could play a death metal gig with the amp. Without a pedal, I wouldn't have too much "clank" but would still be doable.

Every time I consider selling my BB800 I AB it against one of my tube amps and I say to myself "damn this gets me 85% there" Easily the most tube sounding class D I've played. Good on its own, but add your favorite pre and it'll cop any tube amp tone. I can already check off Peavey VB-2 and Mesa Bass 400.

 

[Hypercaffium]

However I do not find the BB800 distortion sounds very good, to my ear. Similar to @hennessybass I find that it has a harsh "square wave" quality. If you want pleasing distortion from a Quilter amp, then I highly recommend using one of their guitar heads instead. Or in your case, you could probably get a nice real-tube sound by cranking up the Master on the BB800 and then dialing in the desired tone with your Shift Line Olympic.

Depending on the position of both master and gain knobs, the BB800 can provide some light grit and (mostly) compression, similar to a tube amp. I experimented a lot with both knobs and found I tone I like with my P bass which is slightly compressed only when I dig very hard.
I'm using my Olympic into the line in of the BB800, so I asked if also the master volume can add its own grit when the BB800's preamp is bypassed and still didn't get a reply. I'm really curious about that.

I am starting to gig with this amp even in small venues where the power is not needed. If it's a P-bass gig, I bring the Quilter. I find the low-mids are clearer and punchier with the BB800. Is it just me or have other noticed that this amp pairs exceptionally well with a P? Maybe it's a passive thing, but I like my P&Q.

It sounds great with my P, that's for sure.

 

[BassBeginer64]

All I know is the QSC has strict QC, I used to make parts for them back in the 90's they would come out to my shop and go through all my QC on their die cut insulation parts, if Pat is still running things the same way he building some very high end quality amps.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Just IMO / IME, but I don't actually think there is any "grit" in the BB. I think it is a clean amp all the way.

For me, the gain is absolutely super clean from about 0-5/6.

From about 5/6-7/8, you start getting compression, and that starts to squash the signal and bring out the mids and other frequencies that your ear hears as more gritty. IMO, it is the way your ear hears that louder and more compressed sound that makes you think of "break up."

After about 7/8, the gain is unusable for me. Past that point, there is some kind of "break up" but it is not an intentional musical break up. It sounds like nothing I've ever heard before. Very square clipping, and more like an electronic noise than some kind of intentional "overdrive" to be used as a tone device.

The Mesa D800 or TH500 are designed to have break up in the gain control. They both have clip lights, and both companies say it's fine to drive the amp so that light comes on (if it's not 100% of the time). I don't think the BB800 is designed for that. I think the "limiting" that you hit as you really crank the gain is designed to manage the power and let you get LOUD without feeling like the amp is bottoming out and running out of juice.
I've never seen anything in the Quilter literature to indicate that the amp is supposed to break up. Everything from the company is about big, clean power in any situation, at any volume.

I think the power section is pretty much all clean - like a pro-audio power amp.

Just my impression. I'm using a passive J bass, so not super hot output. Again, IMO / IME. Interested to hear what others think.

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I don't have a SL Olympic, but I've read a bunch about them, and watched a ton of demos. I don't get the impression that it's by any means designed to be a "clean" pre-amp.

How do you have the "Gain" on the Olympic set? All the way off?

With my passive P bass and gain around 2/3 o'clock I can definitely hear something happening with the BB800. I don't know all its specifics, I don't have a diagram, but I can definitely hear some REAL breakup and compression. In my experience, you can't have one or the other, you always get both and need to find the sweet spot. Mine is around 2 o'clock on the gain: relatively clean tone but compressed when digging hard. Even with the gain cranked, the breakup isn't bad imho but I don't use it. Maybe it depends on your cab and tweeter? I don't know.
The Olympic is definitely clean enough with the gain around 9 o'clock with my passive P, after that point it starts to breakup up to a mid gain overdrive with the gain cranked. I usually keep the gain around 10/11 o'clock to get a nice clean tone when playing softly and a low gain dirt tone when digging hard. Simple as that.
Looking at the diagram of the Olympic I realized that its master volume is placed after the 12AX7 tube, so it doesn't add any distortion, just volume. That's why I'm asking about the BB800's master volume. If I crank the master on my Olympic I get way dirtier tones, so I suspect it's the BB800 power amp, since the preamp is completely bypassed.

 

[Zbysek]

You seem pretty hung up on my comment earlier. Just to be clear, again, I don't think the MB1000 is "underpowered."
My original comment was about a power amp for guys looking for big power.



Sorry if the audience I was talking about wasn't more clear.

For example, if you are playing a single big 4ohm cab that is rated for 1000W power handling, and you are the kind of guy who likes a LOT of clean headroom in your rig, the MB1000, at only 500w @4ohm is not that great an option.

You could get a ProLite, for example, and bridge it at 4ohms and get 3,000+ watts.

I was not trying to insult your gear, or call it underpowered. The MB1000 has a nice set of specs, but the lack of bridging at 4ohms COULD be limiting in certain situations for certain guys with certain power goals.

OK, I get it, no need to argue any more..

 

[hennessybass]

From the BB800 Manual...

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"GAIN CONTROL AND LIMITING ... The GAIN control regulates the overall volume and sensitivity of the bass. The Bass Block 800 is designed not to distort on peaks, and incorporates an effective but transparent limiter"
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It goes on to say set the master low, adjust your tone and set the gain until you get the level of limiting that you want and then... "Once you have found the sweet spot that works for your tone, adjust the MASTER for the desired overall volume."
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"MASTER CONTROL ... On full MASTER the amplifier can be driven to its maximum power of 800W/4 ohms by using sufficient gain, although limiting will begin to cushion the peaks at about 80% of full power."
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"TROUBLESHOOTING ...

Desire clean tone, getting too much overdrive
• Turn down the GAIN control and turn up MASTER. • Plug active bass guitar into ACTIVE input to reduce input overdrive.

Desire overdrive tone, not getting enough overdrive
• The Bass Block is designed to remain clean but the limiting system can be overdriven with extreme Gain settings. • Using an active bass on the PASSIVE input will provide more gain. • “Lead bass” players should consider a Quilter Tone Block or Pro Block which are designed to produce vintage-style overdrive tones.

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So for @CunniMingus , the section on the master control would indicate to me that the Master does not haven any "grit" built in. It has some limiting built in.
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Maybe we - as a group - have a different language about what "grit" is, and maybe the "grit" people are hearing is the limiter being overdriven.
IMO, a limiter being overdriven is VERY different from overdrive tones - or what we think of as "tube saturation."
I just don't think there is any "tube saturation" built into this amp, and the manual says twice that the BB is designed to remain clean. It also says if you want tube saturation, use a different model amp.

The manual does say that you can "overdrive the limiting system" with EXTREME gain settings. As I said earlier, that sound is not natural or musical to me, and sounds like a solid state device being pushed too far. That's IMO. If overdriving a limiter is the sound you are after, that's cool, and do you. Absolutely noting wrong with that. For me, it's not a good sound.

The limiter can provide a "tube like feel" but to my ears does not provide "tube like grit" or saturation. Of the tube amps I've owned, the BB is most like a Hiwatt DR201 - which is a super clean tube amp. The BB reminds me most of the Acoustic 360, AMP, and Thunderfunk heritage of SS amps - just a big clean monster with super fat tone.

 

[Hypercaffium]

What I was hearing last time at very loud rehersals was probably the limiter being driven by my tube preamp (set pretty gritty and LOUD). The natural tube distortion of the preamp together with the driven limiter produced a very aggressive but tight distortion. I liked that tone a lot, but I'm gonna assume I wouldn't like the driven limiter sound by itself, just the "blend" of the two.
I can start hearing the compression on the BB800 with the gain around 11/12 o'clock, if I go up to 1/2 o'clock it starts to "click" a little bit and if I crank the gain I get a super compressed overdriven tone, that's what I've been calling "grit". It's probably an unpleasant sound, I get that.

 

[hennessybass]

It's probably an unpleasant sound, I get that.

That's in the ear of the beholder I guess.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

The BB800 is very light. In most ways that’s a good thing right? Except that at moderately high volumes it tends to move around on top of a tolex covered cab. Hey, no big deal just change out the regular feet for some audiophile geek sticky sorbothane feet. Right? Wrong. The stock feet are screwed into hex head t-nuts that are pressed into the chassis so they have to be pounded out. ****.

Now the standard way of removing this kind of t-nut would be to screw in the screw holding the foot on and bury it to the head so you’re not damaging the top or threads of the t-nut. Maybe you’ll want to use them again and they’re nice ones you aren’t likely to find anywhere but a specialty fasteners place. No problem....except that the screws are actually captured in the feet so you don’t loose them and can’t use them for this. ****.

This is one of the best built best sounding bass amps I’ve ever owned. But for **** sakes guys did you have to so thoroughly over engineer the damned rubber feet? The same kind of self tapping screws you used to secure the cover to the chassis would have worked fine.

 

[hennessybass]

The BB800 is very light. In most ways that’s a good thing right? Except that at moderately high volumes it tends to move around on top of a tolex covered cab. Hey, no big deal just change out the regular feet for some audiophile geek sticky sorbothane feet. Right? Wrong. The stock feet are screwed into hex head t-nuts that are pressed into the chassis so they have to be pounded out. ****.

Now the standard way of removing this kind of t-nut would be to screw in the screw holding the foot on and bury it to the head so you’re not damaging the top or threads of the t-nut. Maybe you’ll want to use them again and they’re nice ones you aren’t likely to find anywhere but a specialty fasteners place. No problem....except that the screws are actually captured in the feet so you don’t loose them and can’t use them for this. ****.

This is one of the best built best sounding bass amps I’ve ever owned. But for **** sakes guys did you have to so thoroughly over engineer the damned rubber feet? The same kind of self tapping screws you used to secure the cover to the chassis would have worked fine.
View attachment 3325344 View attachment 3325345

I got some peel & stick little rubber pads at Lowe’s for like $3 that solved the same problem for me.

I’ll post pics tomorrow

 

[redstrand]

The BB800 is very light. In most ways that’s a good thing right? Except that at moderately high volumes it tends to move around on top of a tolex covered cab. Hey, no big deal just change out the regular feet for some audiophile geek sticky sorbothane feet. Right? Wrong. The stock feet are screwed into hex head t-nuts that are pressed into the chassis so they have to be pounded out. ****.

Now the standard way of removing this kind of t-nut would be to screw in the screw holding the foot on and bury it to the head so you’re not damaging the top or threads of the t-nut. Maybe you’ll want to use them again and they’re nice ones you aren’t likely to find anywhere but a specialty fasteners place. No problem....except that the screws are actually captured in the feet so you don’t loose them and can’t use them for this. ****.

This is one of the best built best sounding bass amps I’ve ever owned. But for **** sakes guys did you have to so thoroughly over engineer the damned rubber feet? The same kind of self tapping screws you used to secure the cover to the chassis would have worked fine.
View attachment 3325344 View attachment 3325345

Piece of rubber tool box mat does the trick, cheap, easy and cut to size