Further to the pic above. It's actually been fun using that EQ to work out what frequencies are cut and boosted when trying to understand voicings of other pieces of gear. Great being able to hear it and also visualise the EQ shape.
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I panicked and purchased an LA-1A. I got an email saying they were back in stock and then when I saw everyone saying they were ordering I was worried they would sell out again and jumped on. Should be here Monday. I want to try it with my ART TubeEQ into the Quilter. looking forward to it!
Thread subbed.
I’m thinking about the BB800, but wanted to get opinions from the experts here.
How will the BB800 work as a doubling amp? How will it sound with my EA VL-208?
I play 50/50 upright and electric, jazzy on upright but loud, distorted, and synth-y on electric. I’m playing a passive Frankenbass P-bass, and a Shen/Charlie Chadwick with Full Circle.
Here’s my path: RMI Basswitch>>effects pedals(Darkglass Vintage/C4 Synth/compressor/fdeck HPF3)>>BB800>>VL-208.
Today, I’m using a Quilter GX5 as a power amp, but the fan is too loud, and amp is heavy. Right now, the BB800 cheaper than an EA Doubler 2 on TB and Reverb.
Thanks, disciples of the thud staff!
I’m thinking about the BB800, but wanted to get opinions from the experts here.
How will the BB800 work as a doubling amp? How will it sound with my EA VL-208?
I play 50/50 upright and electric, jazzy on upright but loud, distorted, and synth-y on electric. I’m playing a passive Frankenbass P-bass, and a Shen/Charlie Chadwick with Full Circle.
Here’s my path: RMI Basswitch>>effects pedals(Darkglass Vintage/C4 Synth/compressor/fdeck HPF3)>>BB800>>VL-208.
Today, I’m using a Quilter GX5 as a power amp, but the fan is too loud, and amp is heavy. Right now, the BB800 cheaper than an EA Doubler 2 on TB and Reverb.
Thanks, disciples of the thud staff!
No idea how it will sound with that cab. It is a solid cab, so I have no reason to believe it will sound bad. I use my BB800 with a PJB Compact 8 and have tried it with my SWR Henry the 8x8.
While I do not play upright, I do run an Emerald Balor Acoustic through mine. The way you are describing using the BB800 is in line with how a lot of people in this thread use the amp. Which I would describe as basically using the amp for its power section and running pedals for the tone shaping work. This is really in line with how the original Block series heads were designed. Tone Block 200 was gain, single eq knob, master volume and marketed as being good with your pedalboard and/or amp modelers. I also have a Pro Block 200 for Guitar/Acoustic/Electric Banjo use and have found it also plays well with pedals for tone shaping.
I run my BB800 through Baggs Align EQ (on with acoustic bass) > Cali76 Bass Comp > Southampton Ictineo (on with Electric) > Broughton HPF/LPF > Active input into the BB800 > PJB Compact 8. Some users run into the active input. Others run into the line in on the back. Which one works better will depend on your setup from what I have gathered in this thread.
While I do not play upright, I do run an Emerald Balor Acoustic through mine. The way you are describing using the BB800 is in line with how a lot of people in this thread use the amp. Which I would describe as basically using the amp for its power section and running pedals for the tone shaping work. This is really in line with how the original Block series heads were designed. Tone Block 200 was gain, single eq knob, master volume and marketed as being good with your pedalboard and/or amp modelers. I also have a Pro Block 200 for Guitar/Acoustic/Electric Banjo use and have found it also plays well with pedals for tone shaping.
I run my BB800 through Baggs Align EQ (on with acoustic bass) > Cali76 Bass Comp > Southampton Ictineo (on with Electric) > Broughton HPF/LPF > Active input into the BB800 > PJB Compact 8. Some users run into the active input. Others run into the line in on the back. Which one works better will depend on your setup from what I have gathered in this thread.
I haven't played your cab and I haven't played the Bass Block with doublebass, but I do have some experience playing doublebass and I've played both the BB800 and a hot-rodded version 1 EA Doubler (same power module as version 2, so I think the sound should be at least similar).
If you were running more-or-less directly into the front end of the BB, I don't know that it'd be great for doublebass. The EQ, while a neat and useful design, would be pretty limited for that. The voicing is slightly rolled-off up top and, even with a passive electric bass, the action of the limiter is, for me, clearly noticeable with the Gain anywhere above 4. (I usually have it set to 3.5 or 4; still a little noticeable there, but feels pretty responsive and dynamic.)
The power section has, by design, a slightly lower damping factor than that of a lot of solid-state amps. You might or might not like this or it might not make much of a difference to you. In any case -- and whatever the cause -- the BB feels a little bit looser to me than a lot of solid state amps -- not necessarily in a bad way -- there's a tiny bit of "bloom" and the amp feels pretty easy to play (not stiff) in most circumstances, but if you're playing fast staccato or starting and stopping chords quickly, it's not quite as laser-etched as, say, my GBE 1200. (Neither is the Doubler, but it is closer to that than the BB is.) On the flip-side, people report that the BB feels more "solid," playing, than a lot of micros do. The word "heft" is used sometimes.
I've not run into the back of the amp much -- I don't know if the limiter will be active in the same way or if the voicing/slight top-end roll-off will be present in the same way. I can mess around with it and a separate pre a bit, today (albeit with electric) and compare it with a stand-alone power-amp and tell you what I think. With being limited to playing at home, now, though, I'll only be able to do this at low volume -- likely won't hit any of the limiting that I assume is there when the power section is pushed hard, but the two-stage limiter works even at low volumes and I'll see if I notice a similar effect when running into the back (who knows -- even if it's there you might like it -- I just don't tend to like a lot of that).
Fan on the 800 is definitely noticeable in quiet environs. Fan on the 802 is supposed to be significantly quieter. Don't recall what the fan on the Doubler was like (again, I played a modded v. 1).
I'd take the DI out of the Basswitch into the XLR in of the Quilter for the upright. This sounds good for me albeit with my EUB.
I suppose it depends how you use the Basswitch at the moment.
I’m using my line out from the Basswitch as the input to the GX5 amp. I guess the XLR out should work the same. Great idea! That Basswitch has all the buttons.
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Quilter bass block has been my main amp for upright since it came out. It's fantastic. I run my preamp into the front input
Regarding the ‘laser-etched’ sound of the GBE1200, do you know if the Genz-Benz Shuttle 9 has that same quality? Shuttle 9 is around the same wattage and price point used with the BB800. What I truly want (and can’t have) is an SVT and Walter Woods in the same box! Thanks for the help. Lots to think about!
Thanks for sharing your setup. I’m sure it’ll sound fine, there are so many flavors or delicious bass in these threads!
You can use it as a pure power amp and it should sound identical to your gx5. You can do that with most micro amps and the output of your fdeck.
Speaking strictly with regard to running into the front end of the amps, the Shuttles are a little cleaner and more open up top than the Bass Block, maybe a bit more articulate, but not to the extent that the GBE is. I know the Walter Woods amps by reputation and second hand accounts, but have never played one, so can't offer a direct comparison, there, though I think I know what you're getting at.
Sorry that I didn't end up doing my little preamp experiment - stuff came up and it's late now. Will give it a shot when I'm able.
^^^ Okay, spent about 30 minutes with a Kustom KXB500, the BB800, and a RAD 1000 power amp.
Most of the time was spent running through the KXB's pre, using its internal amp (just playing it as a normal amp, in other words), through the BB (via its XLR line-in), and through the RAD amp. Went back and forth among those several times playing fingerstyle (legato and staccato, finger funk riffs in different registers), chordal stuff, and slap. At the end, I also did some back-and-forth between the KXB-into-BB and running the bass straight into the BB.
The XLR out on the KXB500 has an adjustable level (nice feature), which I set so that the output from the KXB front end through the BB power section was about equal to what I got running the bass straight into the BB800 with my usual settings (Gain @ 3.5/10, both EQ controls at noon). Volume via all setups was set as close to equal as I could manage by ear and I played the setups at a few different volumes (within the limits of what I could do at home).
The KXB500 uses an ICE 125ASX2 power module (as in, I believe, the Shuttle 6.X and Tonehammer 350 amps), the RAD an ICE 1000 ASP power module (as was used in the old Bergantino IP cabs), and the Quilter uses its own, proprietary module, for what that's worth.
Cabs were an Audiokinesis Hathor 1203 under an Audiokinesis Changeling 112. I played through the stack for the frist half, then just the Changeling for the second.
Short answer: I think the BB800 would serve as a fine poweramp in a compact bass rig and that most people would be happy with it.
Slightly longer answer: The BB, even used as a poweramp, does have a subtly different feel than the others. There were slight differences in sound and feel among all of them, but the BB was a little looser -- that sounds negative -- and could be, if you're looking for a super-accurate amp with super-tight speaker control -- but another way to put it might be "elastic," which, if your current amp feels a little stiff, could be a positive thing (and I imagine that a lot of the Bass Block fans take it to be so). There is a slightly (again) "elastic," propulsive feel to fingerstyle playing and a bit of bloom (and a tiny bit of "free bass"), most noticable on lower notes -- it's subtle, but it's there.
I attribute this, at least partly, to the amplifier's damping factor (which Quilter made a point of marketing), but there could be other factors involved (might be hitting different HPFs in the signal path, among other things -- I don't know).
The KXB500 is a capable little micro -- I dig it -- but both the Quilter and the RAD power amps felt "bigger" and more "solid" at the same volume (again, this could have at least partly to do with where the KXB is high-passed). The RAD amp felt the most articulate of the bunch. The Quilter is still articulate, but there is that little bit of bounce/bloom -- again, it's subtle -- it's not a "loose" feeling amp -- and might not be noticed if not being directly compared with other amps.
I suspect that, were I to push the Quilter's power section, I'd encounter some sort of musical limiting scheme, but if the limiter is active at these lower volumes (when running into the XLR input on the back of the amp), it's active in a much more subtle way than when running into the front of the amp. The difference there was marked. (The differences in note envelope/"bloom" among the three amps is small in comparison.)
I liked the BB as a poweramp. I think I like the RAD amp a little more -- if I were building a rig around one or the other to be used solely as a poweramp, I'd probably pick it -- but it would depend on the situation. If your current rig feels stiff/sterile to you and you'd like just a little more bloom, a little more "swing" and warmth -- if you like that elastic feeling and don't mind your amp being just a little forgiving -- then you may well prefer the Quilter-as-poweramp to most others. If you want it ever cleaner and tighter, it might not be the first choice.
It will not do a bad job, in any case, and, at the risk of abusing a passed equus, the differences are there, but subtle.
Hope that helps.
Most of the time was spent running through the KXB's pre, using its internal amp (just playing it as a normal amp, in other words), through the BB (via its XLR line-in), and through the RAD amp. Went back and forth among those several times playing fingerstyle (legato and staccato, finger funk riffs in different registers), chordal stuff, and slap. At the end, I also did some back-and-forth between the KXB-into-BB and running the bass straight into the BB.
The XLR out on the KXB500 has an adjustable level (nice feature), which I set so that the output from the KXB front end through the BB power section was about equal to what I got running the bass straight into the BB800 with my usual settings (Gain @ 3.5/10, both EQ controls at noon). Volume via all setups was set as close to equal as I could manage by ear and I played the setups at a few different volumes (within the limits of what I could do at home).
The KXB500 uses an ICE 125ASX2 power module (as in, I believe, the Shuttle 6.X and Tonehammer 350 amps), the RAD an ICE 1000 ASP power module (as was used in the old Bergantino IP cabs), and the Quilter uses its own, proprietary module, for what that's worth.
Cabs were an Audiokinesis Hathor 1203 under an Audiokinesis Changeling 112. I played through the stack for the frist half, then just the Changeling for the second.
Short answer: I think the BB800 would serve as a fine poweramp in a compact bass rig and that most people would be happy with it.
Slightly longer answer: The BB, even used as a poweramp, does have a subtly different feel than the others. There were slight differences in sound and feel among all of them, but the BB was a little looser -- that sounds negative -- and could be, if you're looking for a super-accurate amp with super-tight speaker control -- but another way to put it might be "elastic," which, if your current amp feels a little stiff, could be a positive thing (and I imagine that a lot of the Bass Block fans take it to be so). There is a slightly (again) "elastic," propulsive feel to fingerstyle playing and a bit of bloom (and a tiny bit of "free bass"), most noticable on lower notes -- it's subtle, but it's there.
I attribute this, at least partly, to the amplifier's damping factor (which Quilter made a point of marketing), but there could be other factors involved (might be hitting different HPFs in the signal path, among other things -- I don't know).
The KXB500 is a capable little micro -- I dig it -- but both the Quilter and the RAD power amps felt "bigger" and more "solid" at the same volume (again, this could have at least partly to do with where the KXB is high-passed). The RAD amp felt the most articulate of the bunch. The Quilter is still articulate, but there is that little bit of bounce/bloom -- again, it's subtle -- it's not a "loose" feeling amp -- and might not be noticed if not being directly compared with other amps.
I suspect that, were I to push the Quilter's power section, I'd encounter some sort of musical limiting scheme, but if the limiter is active at these lower volumes (when running into the XLR input on the back of the amp), it's active in a much more subtle way than when running into the front of the amp. The difference there was marked. (The differences in note envelope/"bloom" among the three amps is small in comparison.)
I liked the BB as a poweramp. I think I like the RAD amp a little more -- if I were building a rig around one or the other to be used solely as a poweramp, I'd probably pick it -- but it would depend on the situation. If your current rig feels stiff/sterile to you and you'd like just a little more bloom, a little more "swing" and warmth -- if you like that elastic feeling and don't mind your amp being just a little forgiving -- then you may well prefer the Quilter-as-poweramp to most others. If you want it ever cleaner and tighter, it might not be the first choice.
It will not do a bad job, in any case, and, at the risk of abusing a passed equus, the differences are there, but subtle.
Hope that helps.
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MarkA, thanks for taking the time to a/b/c some amps in comparison to the BB800. Great insight and I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the ‘bloom’ factor that amps have with regards to one another. Comparing amps is so subjective, dealing with differences in cabs, pickups, and your own dream bass sound. Add to the fact that I’m looking for a doubling rig means I’m trying to fit two dream tones in the same box.
I’m thankful that you took the time for me and I’m sure others will benefit from your effort too. Take care!
No worries. I hope it's helpful. A lot of this stuff is relative to whatever other rig you're taking as a point of reference and to your own goals and preferences.
Assuming that your GX5 feels more-or-less like my QSC PLX 1804 (clean, clear, very little "give" to the note -- like most racked poweramps), I'd expect the Shuttle 9.0-as-poweramp (or the Doubler) to get a little closer to that than the BB800-as-poweramp would. That doesn't mean that you won't like the BB800 as much or more in that role than the Shuttle 9.0. I could see that tiny bit of bloom and slightly-more-relaxed grip on the speaker being a nice thing with doublebass -- a lot of that would depend on what you like and on your cabs (VL 208, you mentioned), though. If you think just a bit of bloom/bounce/whatever you want to call it, relative to what you have now, would be nice, that's a good argument for the Bass Block. If you're, like, "Gee, no, I'd rather have it tighter/cleaner/more controlled, if anything," maybe look to something else.
That's just looking at the amps as poweramps, though. I know that you're running the Basswitch, etc., with the doublebass. If you're planning on running the electric bass into the front end of the amp (forgive me if I missed that somewhere), I'd pick whatever would work best, for your tastes, with that.
To my ear, the EA (at least the v1 Doubler) is the least "voiced" sounding of the three amps -- open and even. The Shuttle 9.0 is pretty much in that camp, but does have some detectable voicing baked-in. The Quilter with knobs at noon comes across as pretty even, actually, but has some audible roll-off up top -- and there is the action of the limiter (when running into the front end); I wish it was a little more subtle and didn't come on so early in the Gain setting, but a lot of people dig it (and, with the Gain dialed lower, it does work well for me). Deep lows on the Quilter feel the most open to me, followed by the 9.0, followed by the Doubler -- if I had to pick one to play a Reggae show, it'd be the Quilter, but all of the amps are fairly versatile and, though they take different approaches, there's a fair degree of overlap in what you could do with any of them. (Again, if the 800 sounds like your thing but you want more EQ, there is the 802.)
If you like how the EA works with each of your instruments well enough, would it let you get away without the Basswitch? It handles two instrument inputs in a way the other amps don't, but it's still more limited than the Basswitch on the front end.
The line-in the the BB800 is "1 Volt full-scale" -- Link Removed is listed as being able to hit 5 Volts, so I don't think you'd have any trouble feeding the BB or the effects returns of the other amps with it.
Thanks. I didn’t want to buy the Deluxe case and not have the 800 fit. That would be a bummer.
Hello, BB800 users. Is it possible to use both the pasive and active inputs? My plan is to use one for bass guitar and the other one for electric upright. I will not use both at the same time. THX.
