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Quitting the day before a show

#21
As someone else said, if you have paying gigs coming up you can find a new drummer easy! So tell him to be there or be gone. If the other members object then threaten to bail yourself. This problem, probably, won't go away because the drummer has an axe to grind with you for whatever reason.

Had a similar experience in a band years ago where myself and one of the GP's had a personality conflict and we tried to work it out face to face in a band meeting and during the screaming argument we agreed to disagree but at the next gig he started criticizing me (again) in the middle of a set (sacrilege) so I started throwing jelly-beans at him. Needless to say he didn't like that so immediately after the gig he confronted me verbally and we came close to physical combat which other members in the band stopped. Long story short I quit because it was not worth it.

The point: It is not going to get any better even if you did talk it out.
 
#22
My singer (while always being one of the most helpful gear luggers I've ever met) said it best when we've had band discussions: "you picked to play that instrument!"
So in other words don't whine you have to work at hauling or setting it up.
Sounds to me like your drummers' mind has already been made up. But I'd do another meeting honestly and air-out how you feel about is flakyness level....you need the commitment and everyone being on the same page. You guys have a band to run, and no time for wishy-washy availability times.
I grew tired long ago of having to walk on eggshells with some band members and won't do it anymore, I ask them point blank, 'are you in or are you out?'.
 
#24
As you may have already figured out, your drummer is psychotic. Either the band needs the balls to fire him (they all have the evidence from his e-mail), or you need to quit and find a more civil and professional situation.

You don't need that kind of drama in your life no matter how well things are working for your band on stage.
 
#25
Lots of musicians have better musical skills than they do people or basic life skills. And it can be very difficult and time consuming to find the right people to play with. If you go with someone that can play the way you need, but has failings in other areas that make them a lousy bandmate, you are carrying around a time bomb.

What's worse, having a time bomb in your band situation, or having no drummer or a worse drummer ? It's hard to say.

All you can do is go above and beyond in your own people skills to find a way to confront the situation, make sure you know what the real issues are, and try to explain the shortcomings of his communication and habits in a way that doesn't destroy the possibility of a resolution. You have to give people a pathway to resolution without humiliation, and even then it's asking a lot for the person to take that path while other people are watching and judging them, human nature being what it is.

Sometimes letting them vent about whatever will go a long way. It's all about when and how you bring things up; you can get totally different responses depending on the circumstances.

Obviously, he's being lame about the date. If you don't know that far in advance, then you don't have anything booked, and so this date goes on the calendar, just like you said. Checking availability for a show is not a trick question and should not involve many iterations of responses. "Maybe, let me check" justifies a few days to come up with an answer; this is legitimate if the person may be trying to plan something else around that time. Otherwise, it's a simple yes or no question.
 
#26
Time for a new drummer. In this business IMHO you're either in or out.
Our booking agent does not want to hear maybe, he wants to hear yes or no and so does ther band leader.
The issue between you 2 will most likely get worse. Don't forget you were right he was wrong. If you don't run it like a business it doesn't go anywhere.
LOL
 
#27
teleharmonium said:
Lots of musicians have better musical skills than they do people or basic life skills. And it can be very difficult and time consuming to find the right people to play with. If you go with someone that can play the way you need, but has failings in other areas that make them a lousy bandmate, you are carrying around a time bomb.

What's worse, having a time bomb in your band situation, or having no drummer or a worse drummer ? It's hard to say.

All you can do is go above and beyond in your own people skills to find a way to confront the situation, make sure you know what the real issues are, and try to explain the shortcomings of his communication and habits in a way that doesn't destroy the possibility of a resolution. You have to give people a pathway to resolution without humiliation, and even then it's asking a lot for the person to take that path while other people are watching and judging them, human nature being what it is.

Sometimes letting them vent about whatever will go a long way. It's all about when and how you bring things up; you can get totally different responses depending on the circumstances.

Obviously, he's being lame about the date. If you don't know that far in advance, then you don't have anything booked, and so this date goes on the calendar, just like you said. Checking availability for a show is not a trick question and should not involve many iterations of responses. "Maybe, let me check" justifies a few days to come up with an answer; this is legitimate if the person may be trying to plan something else around that time. Otherwise, it's a simple yes or no question.
Click to expand...

"You have to give people a pathway to resolution without humiliation" makes perfect sense. At this point he's already burned that pathway, but I'll add that to section B-12 of the memory warehouse for use in the future. :)
 
#28
TF Ghost said:
I'll preface this by saying I'm very stubborn and blunt sometimes, and I need some advice from people that have been there/done that on how to handle this situation properly...

I play bass for an original rock band. Yesterday I was trying to nail down a date to play a show at a new venue that's a pretty big deal for us. After tossing some emails back and forth I asked for everyone to confirm availability on December 16th and 17th. 2 people said yes, and our drummer says "I can't do the 17th." I ask if he can do the 16th and his answer is "I honestly can't say." So I reply with "I'll take that as a no". He says "Thanks for putting words in my mouth" and some other stuff - clearly showing he's irritated. So I reply to him only explaining that I can't tell a venue we "might" be able to play, and that wishy-washy answers like that only make things more difficult - in the future just tell me yes or no, and if you don't know, find out. He sends back something that makes no sense - saying he's sorry for ruining my day, a bunch of random stuff, then says he doesn't know what his plans might be that far in advance. I said "I don't know why you make things personal. You put the show on your calendar, and make your plans around it, just like the rest of us." (and addressed a couple other things he put in there as well)

He goes off on a tirade. Sends out literally an 8-10 page email in all caps (copying everyone in the band) tearing me apart on a personal level (mind you - nothing I've said was anything personal), rips into all the other members of the band as well, then at the end of the email says he's quitting. I'd post the email so anyone responding can see how much of a whiny little punk he is, but it'd violate forums rules and honestly nobody should ever have to read something like that.

The biggest problem is we have a show tonight, and 7 more as well as a music festival on our calendar in the next 3 months, and we're just starting out and trying to build our fan base and reputation. Our rhythm guitarist is best friends with him and couldn't get him to come out to the practice space to talk like a man - he sent 15-20 texts complaining about me and refused to meet with us. Our lead singer was finally able to talk him into coming out, and after all the whining "woe is me" cr*p, explaining how he has it tougher than anyone else, works harder, etc, we were able to have an adult conversation, air out all the grievances we had towards one another, and made an agreement to never bottle anything up anymore and talk about anything that bothers us when it happens.

Here's my dilemna. I've never seen anyone act like that before - it reminded me of a little kid throwing a tantrum, and the email contained a lot of inflammatory, non-sensical and even racist comments (we're all white BTW - not sure where the N word came from, but it was used). He's the best drummer I've ever played with and we don't sound the same without him, but any shred of respect I had for him is now gone and I don't trust him enough to continue putting my reputation on the line by booking shows when he might quit again because someone says something he doesn't like.

Keeping in mind that the rest of the band probably won't agree to kick him out and find another drummer, how would you deal with this? Be fake and stick it out? Keep playing, just ignore him and don't address him when he asks what's wrong? Tell him how you really feel, prompting him to quit again (which I'm sure he will)? Basically I just want to avoid anymore drama. I could care less how he feels about me or what he says, I just want to continue moving forward and taking advantage of the opportunities we're being presented with. I'd appreciate any advice you guys could offer. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You must have caught him right after he smoked his crack.
A side note: If everyone in the band is not professional minded you will go nowhere fast. Crap like this is a band killer for sure.
 
#29
Your first post sounds like you caught him on a really, really bad day, and that his interpersonal skills need work.
Those things are, or can be, workable, if you have a thick skin and he is willing to recognize and work on better communication.

Your second post raises a bunch of other red flags.
Red flags generally mean serious decisions are in order. It's your life and your band, I can't tell you what you *should* do - but you should be giving it some hard thought.
 
#30
TF Ghost said:
"You have to give people a pathway to resolution without humiliation" makes perfect sense. At this point he's already burned that pathway, but I'll add that to section B-12 of the memory warehouse for use in the future. :)
Click to expand...

I think most people would agree, but when it comes to a choice for what to do next, he's probably got the capacity to ignore the self inflicted humiliation that already occurred.

It's sort of like the Cuban Missile Crisis strategy lesson; sometimes it's good to ignore what was just said and present go forward options as if you just somehow didn't hear the previous round of nonsense. You both know different, and you both know that the other person knows different too, but saving face can be an overriding goal.

The trick is to keep your poker face and not make any subtle or snarky reminders of the person's previous bad decisions, no matter how tempting, and even if it is unintentional. He's thin skinned to start with and he's already going to be pushed right up to the edge of what is pride can handle, to accept coming back with his tail between his legs when everybody knows he was being a fool. Which of course, does not mean he was any less of a putz, you just can't afford to refer to that right now.

Assuming of course that you still want to rehabilitate this guy rather than cut your losses and move on.
 
#31
teleharmonium said:
I think most people would agree, but when it comes to a choice for what to do next, he's probably got the capacity to ignore the self inflicted humiliation that already occurred.

It's sort of like the Cuban Missile Crisis strategy lesson; sometimes it's good to ignore what was just said and present go forward options as if you just somehow didn't hear the previous round of nonsense. You both know different, and you both know that the other person knows different too, but saving face can be an overriding goal.

The trick is to keep your poker face and not make any subtle or snarky reminders of the person's previous bad decisions, no matter how tempting, and even if it is unintentional. He's thin skinned to start with and he's already going to be pushed right up to the edge of what is pride can handle, to accept coming back with his tail between his legs when everybody knows he was being a fool. Which of course, does not mean he was any less of a putz, you just can't afford to refer to that right now.

Assuming of course that you still want to rehabilitate this guy rather than cut your losses and move on.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I should've been clearer. I meant he'd burned that pathway in regards to me - I no longer want to mend (or fix) anything, but after some serious thought I've realized I also want to get through our current block of shows and the music festival before we have a lineup change. As several have suggested I'm going to think long and hard about how to best approach this, and in the interim I'll bite my tongue and do my best to make sure we fulfill our obligations to the venues that have taken a chance on booking a new band like ours.
 
#34
TF Ghost said:
He's the best drummer I've ever played with and we don't sound the same without him.
Click to expand...

You won't sound the same without him indeed, but do consider that you might actually sound better with someone else...
And the sooner you get a replacement, the sooner you'll be properly rehaersed again and sound great.

TF Ghost said:
Keeping in mind that the rest of the band probably won't agree to kick him out and find another drummer
Click to expand...

This will make it probably impossible to get him replaced, so I guess the strategy you have chosen might be the best for now. If no problems retun: great (but I doubt that), and if he throws another fit the rest of the band might realise what they are dealing with and want him out.
 
#36
Our drummer was leaving, we put out the feelers and had our pick of three in short order. Paying gigs lined up makes all the difference.

Probably you need to pay a proper pro to sub in for him in the interim but it would save any more bovine excrement to just fire this sorry ********. Putting out the feelers for replacement would no doubt get to him before you were ready anyway and "tomorrow never comes" meaning you'll get more gigs and the right time to X him will never appear.

Excise it.
 
#38
Cancel all the shows and find a new band, this dude will be nothing but trouble, He'll leave you high and dry before some show and then paint it like it was all your fault.
Been there done that too many times
drop him like a bad habit and run as fast as you can the other way!!!!!!!
 
#39
UPDATE: Issue resolved. We kicked him out last night. And as Jaywa stated, I do indeed believe he's psychotic. Here's how it went down (sorry for the long read, but I figured after all the great advice, I'd provide all the details):

Things went along as usual for a couple of months. He kept being himself (complaining, tossing out know-it-all comments all the time, etc), but we dealt with it. Then in October, more drama. Our rhythm guitarist was asked to move his car for another band to load in. You could see he was really angry (not sure why - probably just having a bad day). He accidentally dropped his wireless relay, tossed out a couple expletives, then walked outside. When he comes back in, our drummer, in his typical know-it-all style, says "that's why I don't park there. I've never had to move my car before." Our guitarist says "yeah, I fogot, you know everything." Our drummer proceeds to pack up his gear and leave in the middle of practice! Guitarist calls him out, asking what kind of p**** would act like that, but he just walks out without saying a word. But here's the best part - that night he reaches out to me - yes, me - the guy he called every name in the book and insulted on every level just 2 months prior - for sympathy and confirmation that he did the right thing! Ridiculous. I didn't respond.

At our next show things went rather smoothly. Afterwards we packed up our gear, and the guys (and a couple of our GF's) were all outside talking. We look over and he's pulling out of the parking lot. Didn't say a word, just packed up his stuff and left. So we had a group discussion about how it's come time to find a replacement, but we'll wait until we get through the end of the year.

Fast forward to Saturday night, New Years Eve. I broke my toe that afternoon and our rhythm guitarist was REALLY sick (flu-like symptoms), so we were already in rough shape. As we were packing our gear to head to the venue, we got an email from him (not a call, an email :mad:) saying he had another kidney stone, doesn't feel he can play "effectively" and "really wants to get out of the gig". It was another typical ridiculous "woe is me" email, and he dropped the N word again (said he didn't want to feel as though he was "n*****ing out on us"). I don't even know what that means. Our vocalist calls him and he answers with a weak, painful voice. Tells him he thinks he's going to have to go to the ER. So we start calling everyone we know looking for a last minute replacement. Then we had to find out the BPM's for a couple songs, so I called him. He sounded perfectly fine, and his tone made me feel as though I were annoying him because he was busy with something. Really p*ssed me off. So we all agreed he was done. We ended up playing to an unprogrammed drum machine. We had fun with it, and the crowd and venue still loved us, but because of his cancellation we decided to apologize to the venue and forfeit our pay.

So last night we all get to practice. He walks in, stands at the door and won't make eye contact with anyone. Our vocalist says the negativity and drama is affecting everyone, and it needs to stop. He goes on about how he's never attacked any of us personally, but we always take things personal. Says he's done nothing but show us all the utmost respect and try to be our friend, but we clearly aren't interested. Then he attacks our rhythm guitarist saying he's being "sabotaged" by him. Our lead guitarist (who never says ANYTHING controversial) had heard enough and said "I'm tired of the drama. You're done." Since it didn't come from myself or our rhythm guitarist, he had nobody to attack, so he slammed the door and left. We texted him saying we're putting another lock on the door and we'll meet him there when he wants to get his drum kit, and he goes on about being insulted that we think he'd steal from us, and he'll bring the police with him and get his stuff when he wants. (which he can't do as he's not on the lease)

So, although we were left hanging on NYE and will be playing our show on Friday with a drum machine, we finally dropped the hammer and have some good prospects we'll be auditioning in the coming weeks. :)
 

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