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Quitting the day before a show

W

Waffles and Scotch

Sep 30, 2009
750
3
Tampa, FL
#1
I'll preface this by saying I'm very stubborn and blunt sometimes, and I need some advice from people that have been there/done that on how to handle this situation properly...

I play bass for an original rock band. Yesterday I was trying to nail down a date to play a show at a new venue that's a pretty big deal for us. After tossing some emails back and forth I asked for everyone to confirm availability on December 16th and 17th. 2 people said yes, and our drummer says "I can't do the 17th." I ask if he can do the 16th and his answer is "I honestly can't say." So I reply with "I'll take that as a no". He says "Thanks for putting words in my mouth" and some other stuff - clearly showing he's irritated. So I reply to him only explaining that I can't tell a venue we "might" be able to play, and that wishy-washy answers like that only make things more difficult - in the future just tell me yes or no, and if you don't know, find out. He sends back something that makes no sense - saying he's sorry for ruining my day, a bunch of random stuff, then says he doesn't know what his plans might be that far in advance. I said "I don't know why you make things personal. You put the show on your calendar, and make your plans around it, just like the rest of us." (and addressed a couple other things he put in there as well)

He goes off on a tirade. Sends out literally an 8-10 page email in all caps (copying everyone in the band) tearing me apart on a personal level (mind you - nothing I've said was anything personal), rips into all the other members of the band as well, then at the end of the email says he's quitting. I'd post the email so anyone responding can see how much of a whiny little punk he is, but it'd violate forums rules and honestly nobody should ever have to read something like that.

The biggest problem is we have a show tonight, and 7 more as well as a music festival on our calendar in the next 3 months, and we're just starting out and trying to build our fan base and reputation. Our rhythm guitarist is best friends with him and couldn't get him to come out to the practice space to talk like a man - he sent 15-20 texts complaining about me and refused to meet with us. Our lead singer was finally able to talk him into coming out, and after all the whining "woe is me" cr*p, explaining how he has it tougher than anyone else, works harder, etc, we were able to have an adult conversation, air out all the grievances we had towards one another, and made an agreement to never bottle anything up anymore and talk about anything that bothers us when it happens.

Here's my dilemna. I've never seen anyone act like that before - it reminded me of a little kid throwing a tantrum, and the email contained a lot of inflammatory, non-sensical and even racist comments (we're all white BTW - not sure where the N word came from, but it was used). He's the best drummer I've ever played with and we don't sound the same without him, but any shred of respect I had for him is now gone and I don't trust him enough to continue putting my reputation on the line by booking shows when he might quit again because someone says something he doesn't like.

Keeping in mind that the rest of the band probably won't agree to kick him out and find another drummer, how would you deal with this? Be fake and stick it out? Keep playing, just ignore him and don't address him when he asks what's wrong? Tell him how you really feel, prompting him to quit again (which I'm sure he will)? Basically I just want to avoid anymore drama. I could care less how he feels about me or what he says, I just want to continue moving forward and taking advantage of the opportunities we're being presented with. I'd appreciate any advice you guys could offer. Thanks in advance.
 
#2
Hey mate,

That's rough! I would say the drummer has issues he hasn't expressed in the past and snapped now, for a reason known only to him (or maybe not known).

In my experience and it may be different for others, there are two types of gig I play:

- "work" gigs
- "love" gigs

I play my best at each show, am professional at rehearsal, try to contribute positively wherever possible...the biggest difference is how I feel about the gigs/bands.

It sounds like this was a real love gig for you, where you would happily play for peanuts to try and create something, and maybe that feeling will come back after a couple of good shows and everyone will learn from it. If not, I guess you should decided whether its worth sticking around, if you're happy to treat it as "work", i.e. give your all, but lose some of the magic that can happen in those really intense creative settings where everyone is switched on to one goal.

Don't rush your decision, give things a chance to come good, and if not then make a decision about what you want to do.

Keep in mind though, leaving doesn't really fix anything about the drummers issues, gets you out of a band that sounds like it is going somewhere and robs you of the things you can enjoy with the other dudes. Sometimes it is better to tough things out and give them a chance.

I hope it works out for you.
 
#3
My sympathies, that sucks...

From your post, it is not really clear though what the drummer's beef was, but he obviously felt the problem was real and big enough for him to make a scene.

my 2cents:
- or his problem is not real, and he has some kind of personality disorder
- or his problem is valid, and you are basically still ignoring it
- or you are both right, but are having serious communication problems

From your post it seems to be the first, but there are always two sides of a story. So I really don't know which it is, and who needs adjustment: the drummer, you, or your communication.

But one thing is for sure:, as long as nothing is adjusted, the problem will return...
 
#4
Damn dude this is a tough one.... sorry the situation turned on you like it did... I would say to try & tough it out, sounds like the drummer has some underlying issues that he doesn't want to express or atleast has a hard time trying to do so.... just see how the next couple of weeks go, don't rush your decision.....
 
#5
Wow. Just... wow.

That's a tough call. Personally, I think I would quit, only because I'm at a point in my life where music and gigging is strictly for fun. It's a very important hobby for me, and I hope to be doing it the rest of my life, but it's just that. A hobby. I don't put food on the table with it. It nourishes my soul.

If, however, the very essence of what nourishes my soul is becomes tainted, like what your drummer did to your band experience, I would have to pull the plug on it.

I feel like the advice given above is spot on, and "can you hear me" nailed it. I personally wouldn't be able to continue working with that drummer, no matter how good he was, especially knowing how he truly felt about me. However, if we were friends, I would at least try to come to some sort of understanding.
 
#6
I went throught the same thing with a lead singer. He was a premadonna and everything had to be his way or he would threaten to quit. ( He quit several times and then would came back after everyone kissed his ass ) I refused to every time. Which brings me to the statement I always make to every player in every act I've ever been a part of.

"Do you really want to play music at a professional level?" Do you really want this? If the answer is yes, then there are no excuses not to have your Sh!* together at all times, and quit whining and complaining.

You've got to really want something to be successful at it. There are many people in the world that posses the raw talent to be able to play music at a pro level, but I would much rather be involved with people that work for the common good because that's what they truly desire.

If I were you, and there is decent chemistry between everyone else in the band, have a talk with the other players and start putting feelers out for capable drummers.

He'll quit again. Do you all want to walk on eggshells for the duration he's involved. I'd tell him if he really doesn't want to play music with you, and can't be professional at every level, there's the door!

Best of luck -

DM
 
#7
Sends out literally an 8-10 page email in all caps (copying everyone in the band) tearing me apart on a personal level (mind you - nothing I've said was anything personal), rips into all the other members of the band as well, then at the end of the email says he's quitting.
Click to expand...
Yikes -- some communication challenges right there. Venting is one thing, disturbed is another.

You don't have to become best buds, but if you can't communicate in a reasonable, effective manner, and you can't count on one another to be reliable, you can't work or play music together, so one of you has to go. Life's too short to play in a band with that sort of tension.

Possible entry point: tell him what you told us, "He's the best drummer I've ever played with and we don't sound the same without him". Be genuine. Then figure out if you, him, and the rest of your bandmates are committed to figuring it out. Have a no b.s. chat about expectations of each other.

The best band working relationships I've been in have been situations where the players are equally comfortable giving and taking constructive criticism. If everyone isn't on board with that, a problem will be a-brewin'.
 
#8
I'd address the rest of the band over this situation in private. If they aren't aware of how bad the emails were then print print them out and show them sometime. Explain to them that you enjoy this band and that you realize the drummer is an essential part, but that this kind of behavior from anyone makes the band feel like work and that you'll always be stuck in amateur leagues because you won't be able to book solid gigs with guys who do this sort of thing. It's one thing to say, "I can't play that date. Sorry. We'll get a sub." and, "**** you, *****."
 
#10
Once you agree to do a gig and the band books it, you do it or you find a sub the band will accept for that gig.

When a player must quit, he lets the band know that he will be unavailable after the last gig currently booked.

That's the pro etiquette, unless the bandleader agrees to a different arrangement.

This sounds like a p***ing match between your drummer and you. He may be the main p***er, but you're in the ring too. It's not professional.
 
#12
I'm assuming you are the one who does all the booking. Having dealt with that over the past three decades, I would suggest you stop doing the booking. I would actually put it on the drummer.

If you don't get gigs, then its his fault. If you don't get gigs, the band dies anyway and you don't have to play with him ever again.

This is tough. If you are going to continue to do the business, then, well, you have to all have an adult conversation and agree on booking rules. This much I know, no one has any plans right now for December. So it should be a put it on the calendar and work your personal schedule around it now. If he is going to be an arse and say he can't see that far out, then he really isn't that dedicated anyway.

In the mean time, treat it exactly as a business. Do your part. Show up, rehearse, leave immediately after. Do shows. Show up. Set up. Play. Pack up. Leave.

Most very successful bands have grown to hate each other over time, and still exist. I won't tell all the stories, but I can tell you that Bon Jovi, prior to the dumping of Alec John Such, only Jon and David could tolerate each other, and unless it was a make or break situation none of them would sit in the same room for more then a minute.

Notice now "Bon Jovi" is really Hugh McDonald, Bobby Bandiera and a couple of other hired guns. Heck, I used to see Richie all the time. Now, not so much....
 
#13
get another drumber. ASAP. Fulfill your already booked obligation if possible, and then take a hiatus to retool. I'm sure he's good, but no one is irreplaceable. If you are serious about your musical path, you will put distance between yourself and people like him.

I was in a band that was recorded in a studio several hundred miles from our home city of Atlanta. The label paid for all accomodations, gas, hotel, and of course the studio. We were all in our early 30's so it was quite a tough thing to get all of our schedules to coincide to make the recording happen (we all had families and/or day jobs). So we get to the studio and apparantly the drummer's not "feeling it". He says he's not ready to play and that he feels pressured. never said a word about this before. we'd played dozens of shows with the material to be recorded and we'd rehearsed at least two hundred times. Our songs were easy straight-up party-rock, and he was a great drummer. But he snapped or something. Maybe the pressure of having to record first, IDK. But started saying maybe we should cancel the rest of the session and come back at a later date. A later date! it took months of planning to get the session we were at! who know's if we'd get another shot! After all sorts of negotiating with him, reasoning with him, and coddling his whiny self, we got him to play a couple of songs (which he nailed BTW). As we started to push for another one, he became fitful again and actually threw down his sticks like a 2year old might do. Incredible! I had know this "man" for ten years prior, he had more experience on the road and in the studio than the rest of us put together (mtv, david letterman, national tour with label support). he was supposed to be our ringer! our ace in the hole.
We managed to get the songs recorded after a cooling off period, but cost ourselves a chance to be as involved as we wanted to be with the mixing process because of all the time spent trying to baby this individual. This was the beginning of a downward slide with this dude. he attempted to grow up, but it was never long-lived. I don't know if people like that can be cured, but I had never seen anything like it. If this dingus wanted to act like that with his girlfriend, fine, but he was trying to derail my chances. Our chances of getting a toehold in a very crowded tough business. We never really were able to rely on him much after that. It was really sad. We ended up kind of going our separate ways a bit. Now I play bass at a church. Good gig, but what might have been?

Ditch this guy before you regret it.
 
#14
Thanks guys. All good responses. Yes, there are 2 sides to everything - I've been receptive to the one "real" issue he cited and said I'd resolve it - which is me sometimes trying to get out of practicing - but the rest is, indeed, underlying personal problems.

Communication: He'll go off on a tirade sometimes (this isn't the first time this has happened) and he'll basically tell me to **** off. Then if I say anything back to him like that, he'll get all hurt and say "I thought we were friends". So sort of a one way street. With him always pulling that "I'm going to make you feel bad" card I keep things bottled up, and walk on eggshells. I feel like I can't treat him like an adult because he doesn't act like one.

The biggest personal issue is that he is simply not a good person. He feels entitled to a record deal because he thinks we're the best band in the area. Last night I called him out for talking cr*p about another band really loud while they were on stage - a headlining band that brought 40 people and we brought nobody - and he feels he has that right. He said their fans didn't clap for us (they're in a different genre), so we have no reason to respect them. Then he said he would've "respected the venue enough" not to do that if we'd gotten paid. It was our 6th show ever, we got a lot of exposure and it was a brand new venue for us. And we were told by the staff we did great and were invited back. So we certainly did get paid, albeit not in cash. When I pointed out how unprofessional that is he went off about how he's been playing in front of people since he was 12, and not to ever insinuate he was unprofessional again.

There are also some serious problems with his outlook on how to get to where we want to go. He told us last night the reason we don't have a fan base yet is because we make small mistakes on stage. No joke. I explained we're new and we haven't found our fans, nor have we played out enough yet. I explained we're going to make small mistakes because we're trying to develop a stage presence - moving around, making eye contact, etc, and occasionally someone gets distracted. These are very small mistakes BTW that nobody but us notices. His reply was that we don't need to do anything - all we have to do is stand there, stare at our instruments and play perfectly because that's what record companies look for. I suggested putting neon strings on our guitars as a gimmick to try and get people's attention (and maybe they'll remember us). His response was that we don't want those kinds of fans as their ignorant and not into the music. I think the concept of everyone in the audience not being a musician escapes him. So yes, some fundamental problems in regards to personality and thought processes that probably can't be worked out.

BUT - I love the music, love the rest of the guys and can't believe how much we've blown up without having any real draw. We're opening for a national act at one of the biggest venues in the area in a few weeks and it'll be our first show at that venue. So it seems we have karma (and a little luck) on our side, and I have absolutely no intention of quitting.

For right now I think the advice to sit tight, play some more shows and see where it goes is probably the best option. A tool is a tool, but if that tool helps you get the job done, it's worthwhile to have around. And we all agreed last night we will never argue via email again, I just hope he can be a man and have a face to face talk next time he feels the need to lash out.

Thanks again for the advice - my stubborn *** would've just made things worse if I'd taken the route I was comtemplating... :)
 
#15
TF Ghost said:
Thanks guys. All good responses. Yes, there are 2 sides to everything - I've been receptive to the one "real" issue he cited and said I'd resolve it - which is me sometimes trying to get out of practicing - but the rest is, indeed, underlying personal problems.

Communication: He'll go off on a tirade sometimes (this isn't the first time this has happened) and he'll basically tell me to **** off. Then if I say anything back to him like that, he'll get all hurt and say "I thought we were friends". So sort of a one way street. With him always pulling that "I'm going to make you feel bad" card I keep things bottled up, and walk on eggshells. I feel like I can't treat him like an adult because he doesn't act like one.

The biggest personal issue is that he is simply not a good person. He feels entitled to a record deal because he thinks we're the best band in the area. Last night I called him out for talking cr*p about another band really loud while they were on stage - a headlining band that brought 40 people and we brought nobody - and he feels he has that right. He said their fans didn't clap for us (they're in a different genre), so we have no reason to respect them. Then he said he would've "respected the venue enough" not to do that if we'd gotten paid. It was our 6th show ever, we got a lot of exposure and it was a brand new venue for us. And we were told by the staff we did great and were invited back. So we certainly did get paid, albeit not in cash. When I pointed out how unprofessional that is he went off about how he's been playing in front of people since he was 12, and not to ever insinuate he was unprofessional again.

There are also some serious problems with his outlook on how to get to where we want to go. He told us last night the reason we don't have a fan base yet is because we make small mistakes on stage. No joke. I explained we're new and we haven't found our fans, nor have we played out enough yet. I explained we're going to make small mistakes because we're trying to develop a stage presence - moving around, making eye contact, etc, and occasionally someone gets distracted. These are very small mistakes BTW that nobody but us notices. His reply was that we don't need to do anything - all we have to do is stand there, stare at our instruments and play perfectly because that's what record companies look for. I suggested putting neon strings on our guitars as a gimmick to try and get people's attention (and maybe they'll remember us). His response was that we don't want those kinds of fans as their ignorant and not into the music. I think the concept of everyone in the audience not being a musician escapes him. So yes, some fundamental problems in regards to personality and thought processes that probably can't be worked out.

BUT - I love the music, love the rest of the guys and can't believe how much we've blown up without having any real draw. We're opening for a national act at one of the biggest venues in the area in a few weeks and it'll be our first show at that venue. So it seems we have karma (and a little luck) on our side, and I have absolutely no intention of quitting.

For right now I think the advice to sit tight, play some more shows and see where it goes is probably the best option. A tool is a tool, but if that tool helps you get the job done, it's worthwhile to have around. And we all agreed last night we will never argue via email again, I just hope he can be a man and have a face to face talk next time he feels the need to lash out.

Thanks again for the advice - my stubborn *** would've just made things worse if I'd taken the route I was comtemplating... :)
Click to expand...

So, playing in front of any audience makes you a professional? In that case, let me change my personal statistic. Based on that, I'm a professional because when I was 5 in kindergarten I got to sing a whole song solo in front of the entire auditorium, and when I was 11 I sang the national anthem for a local fair.

So that means I'm a professional with over 45 years of experience....LOL!

Playing in front of an audience has nothing to do with being a professional. Please give him my personal phone number and email so I can explain the difference to him, as his actions are totally unprofessional, even for a PUNK band.

Dump this dude fast. Stop being "friends." Even the Beatles weren't "friends." They were a couple of guys who met in school and brought in other people they knew. Not hung with, not friends, but knew.

Good luck.

tom
 
#16
Personally, I have NO tolerance for that kind of drama. I would be on the phone immediately looking for a replacement. I would have finished the conversation with "Sorry you feel that way, have a nice life. Get your drums off my lawn."

I don't care how good he is, he CAN be replaced. Immediately. If you guys have gigs, you may be surprised. There are tons of pro, amazing, hungry players that will give there left ventrical to play in a working band. Even temporarily until you get a full time guy. So you have to pay a pro $100 for the first night. He'll do exactly what he's told, on time, drama free, rock solid meter...

I know far too many excellent players who never had a chance because they're sociopaths. Nobody cares how good you are if you're a jerk.
 
#20
fenderhutz said:
I was going to post some insights on things but I have played with drummers that acted exactly the same.

Find another drummer and hope they aren't bat $%#! crazy. The one we had was the one of the best musicians I have ever played with, but because of his mental issues we couldn't count on him showing up to gigs.
Click to expand...

Hey, did the Micro VR issue ever get truly resolved?
 

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