Racks and cables: the unsung heroes

[Zooberwerx]

Looked at the Parts Express site, they want $11.65 to ship 5 feet of cable and two Speakons?!?! No thanks...

Sure you don't have something available locally? Any well-stocked music retailer should have this stuff in stock. If you want, I can stop by Alpha / Virginia Beach, pick the stuff up, and ship via priority mail (~$5). FTR, that's where TBer walterw works.

Riis

 

[Balog]

Sure you don't have something available locally? Any well-stocked music retailer should have this stuff in stock. If you want, I can stop by Alpha / Virginia Beach, pick the stuff up, and ship via priority mail (~$5). FTR, that's where TBer walterw works.

Riis

Thanks, that's very generous of you. I didn't mean I was giving up on DIY cabling just that I wasn't going to order from Parts Express. If I can't find something locally (or the retail markup and sales tax is more than shipping) I might take you up on that. Or buy enough stuff to get the free shipping, we'll see.

 

[derridiandrift]

For hooking a pre to a power amp, would that be speaker or instrument cable?

I don't think anyone answered this question. It needs to be an instrument cable.

 

[JoeVictim]

I don't think anyone answered this question. It needs to be an instrument cable.

Thank you. That helps me too.

So, Instrument cable from bass to pre. Instrument cable from pre to power. Speaker cable from power to cab?

Now, what if I want a tuner/compressor? What cable would that be? Also, my pre doesn't have a "tuner out", would that connect to the send/return loop somehow?

Sorry for the noob questions.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Thank you. That helps me too.

So, Instrument cable from bass to pre. Instrument cable from pre to power. Speaker cable from power to cab?

Now, what if I want a tuner/compressor? What cable would that be? Also, my pre doesn't have a "tuner out", would that connect to the send/return loop somehow?

Sorry for the noob questions.

Tuners & compressors will require shielded instrument / signal cables. Speakers and only speakers require speaker cable. Keep in mind that some interconnections may benefit from balanced TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) cables...check the manuals for specific recommendations.

You could connect the tuner to an FX send if desired. Does your pre have a mute function?

Riis

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Keep in mind that some interconnections may benefit from balanced TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) cables...

Anytime a balanced option is available, be it TRS or XLR, it should be used. True professional grade gear doesn't use any unbalanced connections between devices, as with balanced you never get ground loop noise, while with unbalanced it's almost impossible to avoid.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[JoeVictim]

Tuners & compressors will require shielded instrument / signal cables. Speakers and only speakers require speaker cable. Keep in mind that some interconnections may benefit from balanced TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) cables...check the manuals for specific recommendations.

You could connect the tuner to an FX send if desired. Does your pre have a mute function?

Riis

Unfortunately it doesn't. This reason alone almost makes me want to go pedal tuner. But what else could I put in my rack? I don't really use compression...I have a nice Grundorf 6 space, with 3 spaces left over. Feels nice to only worry about what to put in my rack (besides what 5/6string to get).

 

[Balog]

Unfortunately it doesn't. This reason alone almost makes me want to go pedal tuner. But what else could I put in my rack? I don't really use compression...I have a nice Grundorf 6 space, with 3 spaces left over. Feels nice to only worry about what to put in my rack (besides what 5/6string to get).

Rack mount tuner? Drawer? 5 band para EQ?

 

[Balog]

Anytime a balanced option is available, be it TRS or XLR, it should be used. True professional grade gear doesn't use any unbalanced connections between devices, as with balanced you never get ground loop noise, while with unbalanced it's almost impossible to avoid.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Ok, perhaps a stupid question but the output from a bass is typically unbalanced, right?

 

[mikeddd]

Ok, perhaps a stupid question but the output from a bass is typically unbalanced, right?

Correct. There are some high-end/custom built basses that have a balanced output but 99% of the basses out there have an unbalanced output and will connect to your preamp/amp/pedals with a standard 1/4" unbalanced instrument cable.

 

[Plstrns]

4 pole Neutriks are cheap at GC. I use 3 conductor 14 gauge power cable from a bulk roll at Home Depot for speakers. It's got a tough exterior, it's very flexible and looks just like a store bought cable.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Ok, perhaps a stupid question but the output from a bass is typically unbalanced, right?

Right. BTW, a balanced pickup is possible, and if used would eliminate noise issues completely. The problem with them is compatibility.
Back in the day most mics were high impedance unbalanced too, and they had the same noise and cable issues that high impedance unbalanced pickups do. They disappeared almost overnight with the introduction of the SM57 and SM58, and consoles with XLR inputs to make use of them. That was circa 1973 as I recall. Another example of where the PA and recording guys woke up and smelled the coffee, while the musical instrument guys pressed the snooze alarm. Alembic was one example of an attempt to get it right.

 

[Balog]

4 pole Neutriks are cheap at GC. I use 3 conductor 14 gauge power cable from a bulk roll at Home Depot for speakers. It's got a tough exterior, it's very flexible and looks just like a store bought cable.

Do you use the third conductor for anything, or is that just how the cheap wire comes?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Do you use the third conductor for anything, or is that just how the cheap wire comes?

The third conductor is there because it's AC cable, which usually uses 3 conductors. To save $ and weight look for 2 conductor Type SJ; most big boxes don't carry it, electrical supply stores do.

 

[aborgman]

dude, i used to make speaker cables out of broken extension cords. obviously, if you're using a lot of wattage or making a long run, you'd want something somewhat heavy duty, but you certainly don't need to use the heaviest wires on earth.

Your house is FULL of hundred+ foot runs of 14 gauge ROMEX - and at 120VAC you're limited to running a mere 1800 watts.

On anything other than LONG runs with LOTS of power - your standard extension cord will be way more than enough.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Your house is FULL of hundred+ foot runs of 14 gauge ROMEX - and at 120VAC you're limited to running a mere 1800 watts.

On anything other than LONG runs with LOTS of power - your standard extension cord will be way more than enough.

Wire capacity is based on current, not power. At 120 volts 1800 watts is 15 amperes. That same 1800 watts into a 2 ohm speaker load is 60 volts, and that's a 30 ampere load. For that you need 10 ga. wire.
True, few of us will run 1800w into 2 ohms, but those who do need to be aware that it's all about volts, current and resistive insertion loss, not watts.

 

[JoeVictim]

Wire capacity is based on current, not power. At 120 volts 1800 watts is 15 amperes. That same 1800 watts into a 2 ohm speaker load is 60 volts, and that's a 30 ampere load. For that you need 10 ga. wire.
True, few of us will run 1800w into 2 ohms, but those who do need to be aware that it's all about volts, current and resistive insertion loss, not watts.

Hey Bill,

Does your knowledge ever end?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Hey Bill,

Does your knowledge ever end?

I'm no more knowledgeable than any professional acoustical engineer should be. I do have the luxury of working for myself, so there's no one looking over my shoulder wondering why I spend so much time on line. For me it's a break from the normal routine, which is mainly spent behind a computer anyway.

 

[bassman10096]

The third conductor is there because it's AC cable, which usually uses 3 conductors. To save $ and weight look for 2 conductor Type SJ; most big boxes don't carry it, electrical supply stores do.

For cables, Ace Hardware has loose cable (2 conductor 12 gage and up) by the foot for good prices. I find it's possible to get a good price for decent quality Speakons on Ebay if you buy 8 or more at a time.
Good thread - nice to hear a broader range of info than the typical speaker cable vs instrument cable Q&A. Thanks to all.

 

[Balog]

For cables, Ace Hardware has loose cable (2 conductor 12 gage and up) by the foot for good prices. I find it's possible to get a good price for decent quality Speakons on Ebay if you buy 8 or more at a time.
Good thread - nice to hear a broader range of info than the typical speaker cable vs instrument cable Q&A. Thanks to all.

I was trying to find some 12/2 SJ at Grainger (as I get a pretty substantial discount through work). No joy there, but their online catalog is terrible so I emailed our sales rep and hopefully she'll find some. If not I'll try Lowe's; the 10% vet's discount about off sets the sales tax.