Raising bass cabs ?

[msb]

Is there much point in elevating bass speakers from the floor ? Or do the rubber feet on the bottom of cabs effectively do that ?
The room in question has a hollow stage , maybe five inches high . I’m using Bergantino HDN cabs .

 

[el murdoque]

You will loose the ground coupling effect. That can make things worse. Or better.

 

[2saddleslab]

Really depends on the stage. If it's too boomy on the floor, give it a lift.

 

[agedhorse]

There are two different mechanisms for coupling.

Mechanical coupling is vibrations from the shell of the cabinet coupling through the feet (or corners) touching the stage. This can be effectively decoupled by placing the cabinet on say 1/2” of dense foam or even carpet.

Acoustic coupling is where the energy is not transferred through contact but through the air itself. This is more difficult to address, but the foam or carpet is a good start. Tilting the cabinet back even a few degrees or elevating the cabinet a few inches may also help.

Regarding elevating or tilting a bass cabinet reducing the “coupling” effect and loss of low end, that’s not entirely true because the low frequency wavelengths are so long. A much bigger factor is that due to the response becoming more on axis, the mids and highs increase which gives the impression of less low end.

 

[MrLenny1]

I use a tire chaulk when that is an issue. $5.00 at discount stores.

 

[spatters]

Acoustic coupling is where the energy is not transferred through contact but through the air itself. This is more difficult to address

It's easy to forget that the loudspeaker system includes the stage we put it on and the room we put it in!

Subjectively, acoustic coupling tends to result in bass that doesn't sound very loud on the stage, but becomes massively boomy out in the crowd. This is something you may not realize unless you step out into the audience area while someone else soundchecks your instrument...or until someone records your band from the floor.

Also subjectively, raising your amp well off the floor generally lets everyone hear what's coming out of your amp or combo more accurately, at the price of not sounding as loud. Now that we have Class D amps and extremely efficient Neo speakers, we don't always need floor coupling just to be heard.

Raising the cabinet off the floor also brings it closer to your ears, so you're hearing more of what the audience hears instead of just flapping your pant legs, and you'll tend to EQ differently.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Raising a cabinet closer to ear level helps you to monitor better and as a result, play better. It’s easy enough for you to test it and see.

 

[sokolasty]

I did once an A/B test of an amp on the floor in a corner under a table vs same amp on chair far from wall.
The first setup sounded way stronger, bassier, with power and authority, but it might get out of hand and produce boom.
Even if bass rolled down on first amp, it still sounded more bassy compared to 100% rolled up amp sitting on chair.
This was done at bedroom level and with guitar amp, and I find this highly informative nevertheless.

 

[agedhorse]

I did once an A/B test of an amp on the floor in a corner under a table vs same amp on chair far from wall.
The first setup sounded way stronger, bassier, with power and authority, but it might get out of hand and produce boom.
Even if bass rolled down on first amp, it still sounded more bassy compared to 100% rolled up amp sitting on chair.
This was done at bedroom level and with guitar amp, and I find this highly informative nevertheless.

You are adding additional boundaries, the floor remains the constant but adding the corner boundary changes the radiated acoustic space which affects the low frequencies because they are most influenced by the boundaries.

 

[Lesfunk]

I like having the cab up closer to my ear and off the floor.
I don’t have to turn up as loud and I feel I get a clearer representation of the actual sound coming from the cabinet.

 

[sokolasty]

You are adding additional boundaries, the floor remains the constant but adding the corner boundary changes the radiated acoustic space which affects the low frequencies because they are most influenced by the boundaries.

If you meant be this that a amp on a floor far from walls would, simplified, have less bass compared to standing on a floor in a corner, then I couldn't agree more.
Knowing this from reading is one thing, experiencing with own ears other.

 

[agedhorse]

If you meant be this that a amp on a floor far from walls would, simplified, have less bass compared to standing on a floor in a corner, then I couldn't agree more.
Knowing this from reading is one thing, experiencing with own ears other.

Yes, the two walls plus the floor that form the corner form an ~1/8-space boundary which adds low frequency SPL due to the reduction from omnidirectional (360 degree spherical) to 1/4-hemispherical.

 

[comatosedragon]

Raising a cabinet closer to ear level helps you to monitor better and as a result, play better. It’s easy enough for you to test it and see.

As solely a bedroom bassist; this is my experience as well. Purchased a second cab to set my combo on top of; sounds much better, and yes I play better too.

 

[themickster]

I use a tire chaulk when that is an issue. $5.00 at discount stores.

Do you mean a wheel chock?

 

[themickster]

Is there much point in elevating bass speakers from the floor ? Or do the rubber feet on the bottom of cabs effectively do that ?
The room in question has a hollow stage , maybe five inches high . I’m using Bergantino HDN cabs .

I played somewhere with a hollow stage a two feet high. My head was either too loud for anyone else to be heard or too quiet for me to hear it. We didn't know why. I do now, thanks to this thread.

 

[punchdrunk]

Not familiar with what bran these guys were using…

Oh wait, I must have read the title of this thread wrong.. carry on,

 

[ardgedee]

You will loose the ground coupling effect. That can make things worse. Or better.

Even when elevated there can still be mechanical coupling between the speaker and the stage floor unless there's cushioning between the speaker and the stand or the stand and the floor.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

I did once an A/B test of an amp on the floor in a corner under a table vs same amp on chair far from wall.
The first setup sounded way stronger, bassier, with power and authority, but it might get out of hand and produce boom.

That cab, in the same room, just being in a different location, floor or on a chair, can produce dead spots in the room. Room shape and dimensions will change where these dead spots can occur. You can literally walk through an area and have little to no bass.

 

[kalle74]

I'll do 2 4x10" on the floor stacked with rack on top / both cabs raised / stack cab - rack - cab (bottom to top). Whichever suits the stage best. Raising cabs closer to ears, if limited stage volume is of paramount importance.

 

[jj.833]

Most of the people I know (jazz volumes), be it bass guitar or double bass, raise their cabs from the floor. Mostly put it on some chair. The idea is to hear it clearer: get it closer to ears, and get rid of the too boomy bottom. Today's cabs being so ridiculously effective that there is usually no need to help them by placing them in the corner. I see even the hard rock guys placing their Ampegs on a chair, as soon as their 8x10 start to get too heavy for them. I think it would be definitely a very good idea to try it yourself.