Rant.. Neutrik Connectors Without 1/4” Connectivity

[beans-on-toast]

Electronics formulae all use metric; I often marvel at how they all interlock together in a unified manner.

I was in grade school when metric was introduced, so I also previously learned the imperial measurement system and can use both systems.
However, I can mentally envision what a 30 or 50 foot mic cable length is, or a 100 foot multipair when laying out a stage, much better than in meters, because simply that's what I'm used to.

I build violins as a hobby, and it so happens a typical violin weighs about 1 pound, which is my point of reference. A Kilogram? 2.2 violins??

One positive side to using imperial measurement is it teaches you how to use fractions, something that I see many of the younger generations struggling with.

Personally, I function well with some imperial scale measurements, and metric for others. This isn't saying one is superior to the other, only what makes the most sense in one's own mind. Languages are similar; Most people that can speak multiple languages still tend to think in their native language.

My last two GM cars have metric sized bolts. I had to go out and buy a new set of wrenches and sockets. Non electronic micrometers are sold in metric or imperial. Metric sockets are easier. When I want to know what is the next size up from 9/16", I have to mentally work it out.

 

[StatesideRambler]

Especially the "LOT" of people as mentioned...


No offense, just some good clean ribbin'.

T$

Clearly you've never worked in service and repair. The ingenuity, range and sheer number of Darwin Award candidates is mind-boggling. With six busy bench techs at one place I worked there was scarcely a day when I didn't overhear, "Hey! You've got to see this."

 

[David Jayne]

On the load side (i.e. speakers), backwards compatibility is provided but on the amp side (which must conform to the safety standards and because many use internally bridged topology) the connector is SpeakOn only and is touch-proof, latching, and meets the voltage/current requirements for higher powered amps (specifically the 25 amp current density)

Smaller amps (including tube amps) often don't have the same requirements and limitations so you may find 1/4" connections.



It's not a US rule specifically, but some markets served by domestic distribution may have this requirement. This is an area with inconsistencies between regions and even different countries, so often it's just easier to design/build to the "higher standard".

It may also be that one model in a series requires it, therefore it makes more sense to build all models in the series that way for that market.

My company makes machinery that sometimes goes overseas. So every unit meets CE. It's just simpler that way.

 

[byacey]

My last two GM cars have metric sized bolts. I had to go out and buy a new set of wrenches and sockets. Metric sockets are easier. When I want to know what is the next size up from 9/16", I have to mentally work it out.

I'm in the same situation; in fact I'm rebuilding a 6.0l LQ4 engine right now. My first car was a 62 Olds, so I got to know the SAE wrench sizes intimately, and never forgot thereafter.

 

[quickfix]

I first started noticing speakons being widely adopted over 20 years ago. Seems like sufficient notice.

Except for Ampeg. My late model Ampeg cabs...450 watt PF115HE and 400 watt PF115LF inputs are 1/4" only. As a result I have to use the 1/4" output on my Ampeg PF 800 amp.

 

[dave_bass5]

I don't think the combo plugs area even being installed on US market amps anymore. I recently bought a small Crown and the manual had a note that said tge combo Neutriks would be found only on some non-USA market amps.
.

My Fender Rumble 800Hd has them. That's a fairly recent head.

 

[StatesideRambler]

When a manufacturer sells products using imperial dimension hardware it limits the market to (pretty much) the U.S.A. Metric is worldwide. There will forever be those few legacy products, though, that will keep to the old ways, no matter the market.

Back when the U.S. was going to push through a change to metric measure I got a lot of laughs hearing people grouse about having to spend the rest of their lives converting between metric and English. Decades later, here we are. Had we eaten that frog first thing in the morning as Mark Twain advised we'd have been past it by now.

 

[Gizmot]

I was an early adopter of the Neutrik Speakon and have been using them since the early 90s on ALL my gear. They have always been rock-solid reliable and since you can use it with cables up to 12 gauge, you don't loose power in long runs.

 

[Spupilup]

I work with old British trucks. You wanted to talk about ridiculous, wait until you've encountered a Whitworth sized bolt!!!

 

[GBBSbassist]

Speakon is superior in every way. My favorite Improvement is the lock mechanism. Clinging to old tech like that is just silly. Tubes I get. The tone is different. But everything else can go in the burn pile.

I don't think many people are going to argue the technological superiority of speakon connectors. What I will argue is how prevalent it is that amps are being shorted out due to inferior 1/4" cables being used. It's the very first thing brought up in almost every thread I've seen about speakon connectors. No, someone's anecdotal situation of a friend who had it happen to them at a gig where angry drunk patrons needed some rock and roll isn't really going to sway my opinion, because my anecdotal situation where it's not happened to me, or anyone I know, or they know is no different...

But some very experienced people on this thread (whose opinions I fully respect) said so?!?! Rad, I get it, but what's my alternative to amps I own that only have 1/4" connectors? Get rid of them for new tech? Just not use it any more and let it sit there? Have my 40+ year old amp serviced to have a speakon connector added? I think I'm just going to ride the lightning on this one...

 

[byacey]

I don't think many people are going to argue the technological superiority of speakon connectors. What I will argue is how prevalent it is that amps are being shorted out due to inferior 1/4" cables being used. It's the very first thing brought up in almost every thread I've seen about speakon connectors. No, someone's anecdotal situation of a friend who had it happen to them at a gig where angry drunk patrons needed some rock and roll isn't really going to sway my opinion, because my anecdotal situation where it's not happened to me, or anyone I know, or they know is no different...

But some very experienced people on this thread (whose opinions I fully respect) said so?!?! Rad, I get it, but what's my alternative to amps I own that only have 1/4" connectors? Get rid of them for new tech? Just not use it any more and let it sit there? Have my 40+ year old amp serviced to have a speakon connector added? I think I'm just going to ride the lightning on this one...

Nah, Use what you have, and enjoy it. Should you get a newer cab that has speakons, a simple adapter cable is all that's required.

Momentarily shorting an amp output plugging or unplugging a cabinet generally doesn't harm a solid state amp unless there's a high level of signal present. Running it for an extended period of time while shorted is a different story, but I would hope that the musician would notice that something is wrong due to the lack of sound and stop playing to see what the problem is.

Tube amps are a different story...

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, many failures of amps (especially older amps with less refined protection circuitry) can be traced to a shorted output. Protection circuits are not perfect, so eliminating this cause increases reliability. Same applies to opening the load circuit on a tube amp.

It's no different than seat belts in a car, you may not need them but in the event of a crash their value becomes immediately apparent.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Here is one example of why speakon is better. An inexperienced roadie once set up my amp and used an instrument cable instead of a speaker cable. The amp blew. That can happen with ¼" cables, not all are labeled. It wouldn't have happened with a speakon cable.

 

[David Jayne]

In the pre-Speakon days my rig consisted of a rack with a bridged class H power amp good for 1 kilowatt. It only had banana connectors. I bought a cable with banana one end and 1/4" the other. The 1/4" jack was all metal. I had NO idea that there was any risk at all. Luckily, nothing bad ever happened.

 

[two fingers]

I don't think many people are going to argue the technological superiority of speakon connectors. What I will argue is how prevalent it is that amps are being shorted out due to inferior 1/4" cables being used. It's the very first thing brought up in almost every thread I've seen about speakon connectors. No, someone's anecdotal situation of a friend who had it happen to them at a gig where angry drunk patrons needed some rock and roll isn't really going to sway my opinion, because my anecdotal situation where it's not happened to me, or anyone I know, or they know is no different...

But some very experienced people on this thread (whose opinions I fully respect) said so?!?! Rad, I get it, but what's my alternative to amps I own that only have 1/4" connectors? Get rid of them for new tech? Just not use it any more and let it sit there? Have my 40+ year old amp serviced to have a speakon connector added? I think I'm just going to ride the lightning on this one...

Easy....

GLS Audio 3 feet Speaker Cable 12AWG Patch Cords - 3 ft 1/4" to Speakon Professional Cables Black Neutrik NL4FX (NL4FC) 12 Gauge Wire - Pro 3' Phono 6.3mm to Speak-on Cord 12G - Single https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Z2GS6O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_zpStEbT9XWBNN

But, basically, what you're asking amp manufacturers to do is the equivalent of expecting car manufacturers to keep putting cassette players in cars. If you are in the minority, it is YOU who needs an adapter, or a retrofit cassette player, not the entire amp or car market.

 

[40Hz]

It may also be that one model in a series requires it, therefore it makes more sense to build all models in the series that way for that market

You'd know better than me, but that could well be. I got the little XLS1002. Although in bridged mode they're claiming 1100W @ 4 ohms. Even allowing for the usual exaggerations you find in power specs you'd still want a Neutrik on that output.

 

[40Hz]

My Fender Rumble 800Hd has them. That's a fairly recent head.

Good to know. Makes life easier if you've got a non-Neutrik provisioned cab cab and aren't willing to mod it.

 

[jnewmark]

I'm all for Speakon cables, but only the Neutrik brand. I tried some of the aforementioned, cheap, Chinese knock off brands and got one end ( cab ) stuck. It would not turn or budge no matter what I did. I had to take it home that way, and finally, after a half hour of fiddling, I took it to my tech who finally got it out. Use Neutrik only !

 

[dave_bass5]

Good to know. Makes life easier if you've got a non-Neutrik provisioned cab cab and aren't willing to mod it.

Yes. My Berg cab also has jacks in. I'd never use them unles its an emercgy, but the more compatible with other gear the better IMO.

 

[gstaats]

Use Neutrik only !

That is one of the few drawbacks of speakon cables. The cheap clones are much less reliable than a cheap 1/4 plug. Never had a 1/4 plug get stuck, but have had to wrestle with cheap speakons before. Who knows what the actual power handling of an El Cheapo 1/4" plug or speakon plug is...