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Rap appreciation!

#21
The Roots
Wu-Tang Clan (RZA stuff and sideprojects included)
Blackalicious
A Tribe Called Quest
Aesop Rocks
De La Soul
MFDOOM
....


btw, comparing Little Bow Wow with Aesop Rocks is like comparing Brian Adams with Bob Dylan...get my point?

Gangsta rap is not the same as rap, it's only a part of it.
 
#22
Wrong Robot said:
Easier than jazz maybe, but that's an unfair comparison, because so is rock, and just about every other form of popular music. But when you say it's easier than rock, then you should ask yourself, could you(or any rocker) do it? convincingly to a point where a real head would dig it?

If you ask me, most rock is just as easy as most rap. That is to say, radio rock and radio rap are both dumbed down and simple and neither is any easier than the other necessarily.

It's the good stuff, the more obscure maybe, or more creative and innovative stuff that is challenging in both genres. I sure as hell can't rap like pep love, or gift of gab- the way those guys flow is mesmerizing to me, I get the same feeling as when I listen to victor wooten, I can't make beats that good either, and I try all the time, but there is something that I'm missing, a good rap beat has a certain level of subtlety and depth that is easily missed but is crucial to the sound. I also can't rock out like (insert whatever 'good' rock group, I don't really know, I don't follow rock music)

The reason, why good hip hop is never 'easy' is because it is so largely dependent on creating a good feel and a good groove. Technical difficulty is wholly unrelated.
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Yea well obviously rap is no where near as hard as jazz but my point is that you dont do something because its easier or harder than something else you do it if because you have passion for it
 
#23
steveksux said:
See "Slap is dead" thread. Substitute "Rap" for "Slap"

Rinse. Repeat.

Randy
"Why do they make vegetarian hot dogs? There's barely even trace amounts of meat in there anyway, unless you count meat byproducts."

PS Rap isn't music, and Singers aren't musicians, and drummers aren't humanoid. Rock music isn't music, just loud noise, can't even hear the words! Elvis was evil. Only Fender electric basses are acceptable. Only Fender Rhodes electric piano's are acceptable. Electric basses have no place in "real" music, only uprights. Money ain't pants. Blah Blah Blah. Just go back in time and the specifics change, but the attitude never does. The new thing is never accepted, until the next new thing comes along and makes it look tame in comparison. Herpes was terrifying until AIDS came along. Now people go " THANK GOD!!! I"ve got HERPES!!!".

Already old school rap has graduated to kind of cool, compared to the Gansta Rap Bitches and Ho's stuff, right? Bust a move, Fresh Prince, "I like big butts".

Don't believe me? Mr. "Gin an Juice" Snoop Doggy Dog is selling products now in mainstream advertising spots.

Like Darwin says, we must adapt or die.
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oh?
 
#24
Broach_insound said:
Yea well obviously rap is no where near as hard as jazz
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Right. Okay, so write a rap, maybe one on par with Del's "Del's Nightmare" or Blackstar's "Money Jungle" or Public Enemy's "Welcome to the Terrordome." Now, take those lines, and rap them; but rap them with flow, in rhythm, on beat, in key, and make it sound good.

Rap is vocal jazz. Any MC worth his snot (Del, MF Doom, Common, et al) is just as much a musician as the guy with the piano, drums, bass, or trumpet.

Never think it's "no where near as hard," because maybe they can't rip on a Coltrane song. But chances are, you'll be completely whack (at best) as an MC.
 
#25
Brendan said:
Right. Okay, so write a rap, maybe one on par with Del's "Del's Nightmare" or Blackstar's "Money Jungle" or Public Enemy's "Welcome to the Terrordome." Now, take those lines, and rap them; but rap them with flow, in rhythm, on beat, in key, and make it sound good.

Rap is vocal jazz. Any MC worth his snot (Del, MF Doom, Common, et al) is just as much a musician as the guy with the piano, drums, bass, or trumpet.

Never think it's "no where near as hard," because maybe they can't rip on a Coltrane song. But chances are, you'll be completely whack (at best) as an MC.
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When I said that I meant instrumentally Jazz is harder and it is. to be a good jazz bassist you need to have good rhythm and much much more. It takes alot more theory know how ,and experience to play Jazz opposed to Rap.

Brendan said:
MC worth his snot (Del, MF Doom, Common, et al) is just as much a musician as the guy with the piano, drums, bass, or trumpet.
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^who said an MC isnt as much a musician as a pianist , drummer or bassist? I sure didnt. thats the whole point im trying to deffend , that they are just as much musicians as a jazz bassist , guitarist etc. That still doesnt hide the fact that jazz is harder instrumentally. You should read things through before implying the purpose of that statement was that "Rapers are less of musicians than other the artists of other genres"
 
#26
Rap is a vocal style. It is silly to judge it based on the accompanying music, which can really be any genre. Saying "jazz is harder than rap" just doesn't make sense. That's like saying "playing electric guitar is harder than playing jazz".
 
#27
msquared said:
Rap is a vocal style. It is silly to judge it based on the accompanying music, which can really be any genre. Saying "jazz is harder than rap" just doesn't make sense. That's like saying "playing electric guitar is harder than playing jazz".
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Im just saying this from experience I have been in Rap bands and I have been in Jazz and let me tell you its a hell of alot harder to make a solid ear pleasing Jazz bassline than it is to make a rap one. There is alot more to creating a Jazz bassline than a rap bass line, Jazz has alot of defining characteristics which make it "Jazz" When I would play Rap sure I could nail down a bassline for the singer in seconds.

also the statement "playing electric guitar is harder than playing jazz" is a ridiculous comparison to a statementm such as "jazz is harder than rap"

and like I said befor none of this matters when your making music. you dont play a certain Genre because its harder than another.

when I made that statement I was simply replying and agreeing to Wrongrobots post where he goes on to say that many genres arent as hard as jazz
 
#28
Brendan said:
Right. Okay, so write a rap, maybe one on par with Del's "Del's Nightmare" or Blackstar's "Money Jungle" or Public Enemy's "Welcome to the Terrordome." Now, take those lines, and rap them; but rap them with flow, in rhythm, on beat, in key, and make it sound good.

Rap is vocal jazz. Any MC worth his snot (Del, MF Doom, Common, et al) is just as much a musician as the guy with the piano, drums, bass, or trumpet.
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Exactly. The reason rapping seems so easy is because everyone you hear on the radio is GOOD AT IT, or at least has a studio that'll splice their lyrics right. Try to sing any verse from a good rap song compellingly, or listen to a non-musician/rapper try. It's awful, simply awful. It doesn't require as much book-study as Jazz seems to, but it requires a real feel as a singer, and feel is one of the most challenging things to perfect in Jazz as well. Of course, there's a lot of rap that isn't quite music that I can't speak for, but I think most musicians feel the same way about that type of junk
 
#30
On my itunes I have:

Aesop Rock
Athletic Mic League
Biggie
Black Star
Cannibal Ox
Company Flow
Cunninlynguists
De La Soul
Dead Prez
Deltron 3030
Dr. Octagon
El-P
Eric B. & Rakim
Fugees
Gang Starr
Ghostface
Gift of Gab
GZA the Genius
Hieroglyphics
Immortal Technique
Inspectah Deck
J-Live
Jean Grae
Kanye West
KRS-One
Lauryn Hill
Linton Kwesi Johnson (close enough)
Madvillain
MF Doom
Mos Def
Mr. Lif
Murs
Non-Prophets
Outkast
People Under the Stairs
Public Enemy
Ramelzee & K. Rob
The Roots
Sage Francis
Talib Kweli
Thaione Davis
Viktor Vaughn
Wu-Tang Clan.


Plus a few instrumental hip-hop discs: Blockhead, Death Comet Crew, Madlib etc.
 
#31
alot of people are mixing up rap and hip hop in here, not exactly my area but you can tell the difference, maybe you guys should check out Aussie Hip-Hop, we down here hate american music due to its self-absorbed nature, tracks here are just about real life for these guys. Anyway some bands to check out (that is if you can find any of it!) are Butterfingers, Lazy Grey, Bias B, Urthboy just to name a couple. Some great B-lines in there, alot of these guys have really learnt what space can do in a b-line.
 
#35
Pantsman said:
alot of people are mixing up rap and hip hop in here, not exactly my area but you can tell the difference, maybe you guys should check out Aussie Hip-Hop, we down here hate american music due to its self-absorbed nature, tracks here are just about real life for these guys. Anyway some bands to check out (that is if you can find any of it!) are Butterfingers, Lazy Grey, Bias B, Urthboy just to name a couple. Some great B-lines in there, alot of these guys have really learnt what space can do in a b-line.
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One doesn't necessarily negate the other. Rapping is a part of hip-hop, it's true that some people are just 'rappers' without any consideration for hip-hop culture, but you can't really "mix them up". Rapping is a part ('element') of hip-hop culture.
 
#36
I like some of it when it's played live by musicians. Like when Snoop brought his live band in, that was cool. But most of it is drum machine computer generated 3 note bass lines with some dude making nursery rhymes about girls and bling. People say it's funky but a computer doesn't groove.
 
#38
Against Will said:
One doesn't necessarily negate the other. Rapping is a part of hip-hop, it's true that some people are just 'rappers' without any consideration for hip-hop culture, but you can't really "mix them up". Rapping is a part ('element') of hip-hop culture.
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Yes, by definition Hip-hop is a culture, and rapping is one of the arts involved, along with MCing, breakdancing, and tagging, as I last heard.

Blackalicious is where it's at for me. Their album 'Blazing Arrow' is fantastic from start to finish
 

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