Rate my live doubling board, and a question

[Pings Bass]

Looks like I may be joining an Americana act that'll have me doubling upright and electric.

For DB I usually would just go fdeck HPF-Pre -> EQ -> tuner -> (DI and/or amp)

I don't use the EQ for BG, but I want the HPF-Pre in there for the subsonic roll-off. So I put the HPF-Pre last, and the EQ before the switcher. This gives me:

• DB: EQ -> LS -> tuner -> HPF-Pre
• BG: LS -> tuner -> HPF-Pre

This setup works, basically.

Question:

Is putting the HPF-Pre last a problem for the DB piezo load/signal? It's usually the first thing I plug into since It's got 10M Ohm input to buffer the piezo output, but not sure that really matters. The GEB-7 also buffers, but its input spec is 1M Ohm input. I think it's probably fine, since the signal is passing through multiple buffers (line switcher also buffers) before DI/amp. But then what does this series of preamps do to the load on the piezo? (FWIW I'm using a David Gage Realist Copperhead, it sounds fine to my ear, and based on this thread, many people seem to think plugging it into a 1M Ohm input is fine.)

Other than that, how do you rate my board? It's honestly more complex than I want ideally, but it completely eliminates unplugging/plugging for instrument changes live, and it sounds clean.

 

[jTrolt]

First inclination would be to make sure the Piezo resistance mitigation takes place ahead of any other pedal. The EQ would most likely be operating more cleanly, within the signal range/ levels it's expecting to see. The fact that it is working, however, means if it's okay for you and getting the job done cleanly, well then, it's ok.

If it pans out and you decide to upgrade in the future, a Radial Bassbone OD would take care of all the above in a single pedal, as it's specifically designed for what you are doing with DB and BG. Excellent, clean, reliable and road worthy for 2 years running for my busy schedule. A truly pro foot pedal pre for BG/DBer's. If mine were stolen, I'd immediately order a replacement.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

The Realist Copperhead into 1M ohm is fine. There is truth behind the idea that piezos need to go into a "high impedance". However, there is no universal "high impedance" that all piezo pickups require to function - that's really down to the pickup construction, the bass, and the player. Typically, the Realist is good at 1Meg because it's already a dark sounding pickup and a higher impedance only extends the lows, which you then have to cut back more with the HPF. Using a lower-Z limits the lows from the pickup and reduces the need for a HPF.

My own bass with a Realist (pictured in my avatar) is prone to increased feedback with the 20Meg input on my Grace Felix, even with the HPF rolled up, so I most often use the 1Meg setting, which effectively damps the piezo. I found the same issue with the Radial PZ-DI set to 10M, so I use the 1M when I use that DI.

Another preamp with EQ that I found works better than expected with DB is the MXR M81. Huge headroom, almost impossible to overload, variable mids, pre/post DI, and a 2.2Meg input-Z. That works well on my bass and adds some nice "air" to the dark sounding Realist. I've also run the piezo through the M81 in conjunction with a mic through my Felix to duck the piezo during arco passages.

Bottom line - if it sounds good to you and gives you all the control you need, don't worry about whether the internet is telling you you're doing it wrong.

 

[Zbysek]

When I am doubling, I send two separate signals to FOH. I would recommend doing that to you as well…

 

[lowfreqgeek]

When I am doubling, I send two separate signals to FOH. I would recommend doing that to you as well…

That assumes there is a FOH and someone to run it. I've done that a lot, going so far as to send separate mic and pickup channels for DB, and a dedicated DI for electric (3 bass channels to FOH). Through an amp without FOH, though, it's much easier to just use an AB box and set up both paths accordingly. I also used dual-channels amps, and that worked well.

 

[Zbysek]

That assumes there is a FOH and someone to run it.

That’s right

 

[brianrost]

Is putting the HPF-Pre last a problem for the DB piezo load/signal?

Only if the input impedance of the first device in your chain, the EQ, is too low. 1Mohm should be fine.

 

[Pings Bass]

When I am doubling, I send two separate signals to FOH. I would recommend doing that to you as well…

Yeah that is definitely the best way to go when there is a competent sound tech working an adequate PA.

In that case I would probably just put passive DIs inline right off the instruments before the pedal board. This is just to feed an amp onstage.

We'll see what kind of venues this act gets booked into. From pics on their web site, it often looks like 12s on sticks in small to medium bars, so I'm not counting on full PA support.

 

[Zbysek]

Yeah that is definitely the best way to go when there is a competent sound tech working an adequate PA.

In that case I would probably just put passive DIs inline right off the instruments before the pedal board. This is just to feed an amp onstage.

We'll see what kind of venues this act gets booked into. From pics on their web site, it often looks like 12s on sticks in small to medium bars, so I'm not counting on full PA support.

I see. In that case, your signal chain should work fine, Imo