Re-evaluating amp watts I need at live shows

[Passinwind]

a speaker that is 3dB more sensitive than another will be twice as loud with the same power.

Nope.

 

[dougjwray]

The extra headroom does give you nice, clean low end.
But I'm finding that I'm leaving my GK 1001RBII at home more and more, because:
1) It's so powerful that the distance from "nothing" to "way too loud" is, like, a millimeter-long twist of a dial. Too hard to calibrate, sometimes.
2) I find that it lacks the throaty, funky mids of much smaller amps of mine (GK 400RB, Trace Elliot Elf).

I am pretty sure that the amp industry is currently exploiting our naive thirst for more and more watts, to the point where it's getting a bit silly.

To the OP: By the way, I don't know how old you are, but when the guitarist Leslie West was with Mountain (late '60s-mid '70s), I believe he used a Sunn PA head for his amp.

 

[ihaveaquestion]

I wish there was a commercially available class D power amp in a super compact form I could just mount to my pedalboard. I think something in the 200-300 watt range would be able to address most of the gigs I do. If playing an outdoor show I could use one of my higher powered heads.

A little less than 200 watt and marketed towards guitarists, but probably would also work well with bass:

www.seymourduncan.com/power-amp/powerstage-170

 

[bass4u]

I still think that 500 class D watts into a 2x12 (good quality gear, not cheap junk) will give 99.5% of us as much volume as we will ever need - and most likely a bunch of headroom. If you are playing a venue that needs more - or outdoors, etc - you are more than likely going to have significant FOH support and at that point your amp becomes an onstage monitor (if you aren't 100% iem).

What you stated is exactly my thinking now. Almost every show I do my amp/cabinet is basically a stage monitor. The FOH is doing the heavy lifting, that's why I'm interested in a smaller, lower wattage class D head I could pair with whatever cabinet I choose. I used to have an Eden 2x10 wedge cabinet I really liked except for how much it weighed. I used it at the front of the stage next to my vocal monitor and it sounded great. Some company needs to make a bass specific wedge that can handle some power and has NEO speakers in it. Home run if the wedge is powered.

 

[el murdoque]

I brought an Ampeg PF-50T to a rock rehearsal once. I've played it the night before and was impressed at how loud this thing would go, with those 50 Watts of tube power.
Well, I put it on top of my cabs, flicked it on, set the master to max and the gain to the sweet point of breakup and again, was impressed at how much this thing spits out. Then the guitar player fired up his rig with the exact settings of last weeks rehearsal and completely and utterly buried me. Luckily, I had a class D power amp lying around that upped my game from 50 to 600 Watts.

 

[ihaveaquestion]

Almost every show I do my amp/cabinet is basically a stage monitor. The FOH is doing the heavy lifting

That 170 watt duncan will probably be enough. There's a 140 watt 1x15 combo in my country that people love to use as a monitor, and i've never seen it not being enough

 

[Ken Morgan]

Don’t rule out the Jay Ganz Straight Ahead power amp...a tad bigger than a Boss stomp box, 300 watts 8 ohms, 500 watts 4 ohms, and insanely clean

 

[Robscott]

TBH if you need more than 300w you ought to be going through the pa anyways so what is the need for all that gear?

 

[Jeff Scott]

- a speaker that is 3dB more sensitive than another will be twice as loud with the same power.

To sound twice as loud one needs 10dB more gain/output. 3dB is hardly noticeable to the average person.

 

[iiipopes]

My on-stage bass amp watts: -0-. Yes, zero. I go direct to the board, because I can trust our sound man to make sure I sound good and properly slot the mix out front, and we have digital in-ear individual monitor mix through our cell phone app.

 

[beans-on-toast]

It is possible that the PA amp had a high pass filter set at just the right frequency built in. A large portion of a bass amps watts can be robbed, being used to reproduce the lowest frequencies. High passing is applied and the amp is used to amplify your higher frequencies. Under those conditions, 50W with the right cabs can go a long way.

 

[mikewalker]

It's interesting how this has drifted over the years. Used to be you could comfortably fill a high school gymnasium with just 100W of tube bass amp, and that was up against two 50W marshalls and/or hiwatts, and a drummer hitting just as hard as they possibly could...

 

[dwade]

My on-stage bass amp watts: -0-. Yes, zero. I go direct to the board, because I can trust our sound man to make sure I sound good and properly slot the mix out front, and we have digital in-ear individual monitor mix through our cell phone app.

THIS

No amp needed. No speakers on stage. Just clutters things up.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Decades ago I went from 1400watts down to 200watts. Even further back I used to happily gig a 50watt Bassman into a single JBL 15”.
I think having enough speakers for the gig is more important than megawatts.
Smaller amps actually sound nicer to me.
All good fun.

 

[micguy]

To sound twice as loud one needs 10dB more gain/output. 3dB is hardly noticeable to the average person.

Yes, that's right, but 3dB is a doubling in actual power.

Anyway, the loudest band I ever played in, I had a 100 watt bass amp head - a Yamaha, they were really more like 90 watts at 10% distortion. Now, people think that 250 watts (SVT territory) is a practice amp for use at home.

Yes, we may need to turn down.

Or learn sign language

 

[Wasnex]

I own instrument amps ranging from 12W to 2500W. I think the sweet spot for bass is somewhere between 200-300W. This was enough to get me through most gigs without problems. There were times when I couldn't hear well, but turning up is not always the best solution.

The absolute minimum I would recommend for anyone who plays with a drummer and other amplified instruments is 150W. FYI the Orange AD200B makes about 165-170W clean and I think it's a pretty nice power level. When I first started gigging I only had an 85W tube amp. There are many gigs where this is simply not enough IMHO.

I could easily use my 2500W amp for every gig. I generally go for a clean tone and the volume control works fine. IMHO the most important thing from my perspective is to have enough power. I don't think having too much power is a problem as I have fairly decent self-control, but YMMV.

 

[TemplesOfSyrinx]

I brought an Ampeg PF-50T to a rock rehearsal once. I've played it the night before and was impressed at how loud this thing would go, with those 50 Watts of tube power.
Well, I put it on top of my cabs, flicked it on, set the master to max and the gain to the sweet point of breakup and again, was impressed at how much this thing spits out. Then the guitar player fired up his rig with the exact settings of last weeks rehearsal and completely and utterly buried me. Luckily, I had a class D power amp lying around that upped my game from 50 to 600 Watts.

I gig an Ampeg PF50-T all of the time with a RevSound 212 cab in a power trio. I can't imagine rehearsing at such a loud volume that it gets buried. I'll stay in a band maybe 5 minutes with a guitarist or drummer who knows nothing about dynamics and volume control. Just my opinion.

 

[Noshtero]

I run 800 watts. I basically went for the most power I could get under 5 pounds. I generally end up running it at 10% or so, but the juice is there if I need it.

 

[bass183]

In my honest opinion, it really depends on the venue you're playing, the band you're playing with/type of music you're playing. For most "casual" gigs I can get away with my small & light weight Aguilar Tonehammer 500 w/ the Aguilar 1x12 cab. Even for r&b gigs at larger venues or festival stages I can get away with that rig as long as the sound person adds bass to the onstage monitor(s). For larger venues w/ a big stage and with a rock band (guitarist(s) playing Fender twin or Vox amps, I find that amp works too, but I do miss that low end warmth that my larger rig gives me--and I don't need to crank up the larger rig; it's the headroom that is SO NICE. For a heavy rock band where the guitarist is playing a 4x12 half stack rig cranked and especially on a big stage, I find that I really do need that larger rig (I have a 610 Ampeg and an Ashdown 500 watt head). So I have two different rigs because I play a wide variety of music, and I play upright and electric bass. I also find my Radial Bassbone plugged direct to the PA sans an onstage amp also cuts it really well for most gigs when I can't bring a rig (although not for that loud rock band).

 

[Jim Carr]

TBH if you need more than 300w you ought to be going through the pa anyways so what is the need for all that gear?

Not an option for at least 50% of my gigs.