Reading music and elitism

[electracoyote]

Been playing almost 35 years professionally and never once needed to use tab, nor have I been asked to read tab.

I've been playing almost exactly the same length. 35 years ago, TAB was almost non-existent. You and I learned the old-fashioned way; either we learned to read it in standard or we used our ears.

 

[edfriedland]

If I spent as much time studying my Hal Leonard Bass Method by Ed Friedland, as I spent reading talk bass, I'd probably be able to read music by now! LOL

True enough!

I'm not speaking on behalf of BP, but I think ditching tab is a risky choice from a commercial standpoint. No value judgement about whether tab sucks, or is "the people's way" or whatever. Bottom line is not everyone reads notation and tab is a widely known, alternative medium of musical exchange. I think it's not well suited to professional circumstances, but transcriptions and columns in BP are there to instruct and illustrate. If I can get even 30% more people to play through an example because I included tab, then that means the info reaches more people.

No, you won't see tab on a pro gig, though it's not out of the question that someone might use tab to learn tunes for a gig... Whitesnake tribute band? You're all set!

I think tab has legitimate uses when trying to illustrate certain fingerboard concepts, when you want someone to use a very specific placement or fingering... But getting political about it is just dumb.

I was lucky enough to learn how to read at an early age - so as dull as it was to pick out the melody to Do You Know The Way To San Jose... I endured because I was young and had no choice. But, it paid off.

I see a LOT of adult students that learn how to read after years of functioning in bands, etc. It's scary for some of them, because they are afraid to suck at something... but they soon find out it's not as hard to learn as they think. Book 1 of the HL Method has zero tab, it's a traditional, note-by-note approach to reading. Book 2 has tab... at the request of the publisher whose name appears on the cover... From their standpoint - they sell a LOT of books with tab, might as well teach people how to read it too.

Tab is a short cut. Sometimes a short cut is a bad thing, but not always.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I hope it was understood that I was joking... Pino's awesomeness notwithstanding, I think reading is fun-damental.

I thought so, but I couldn't resist....

 

[Roy Vogt]

Umm...how did someone learn "Melissa" prior to TAB??????
Oh yeah, by ear or something like that.....
No disrespect meant Roy, but if it went away I think it would be a GOOD thing.
If someone isn't interested enough because there isn't a bastard child like TAB, then really, they're not really interested.

When is the last time you had a student Roy who didn't read so you wrote something out in TAB they wanted to learn?????

And just for the record......my reading chops kinda suck. But I still haven't used TAB.

Typically I'll write it out in both and then slowly take the TAB away, works every time....
A lot of times I'll use a specific method approach (lately I've been using David Overthrow's 3 volume set augmented by some of my own handouts). A lot of times these method books have both formats.
And we used to routinely ruin vinyl records taking bass lines off of them, but I don't know too many younger players with that kind of patience so if TAB gets them in the door to checking out some players other than the Indie Rock or Death Metal that's all over the TAB sites that's cool with me. I look at TAB with notation as a "gateway drug" to actually thinking about Music.
I'm just now teaching a High School Freshman "Teen Town" using the concept of positions (I for 1st finger on 1st fret, V for 1st finger on 5th fret, etc.) and I enjoyed seeing her getting comfortable with reading just notation on a challenging piece of music. She's had Notation/TAB in her books for 2 years and it's nice to see that light go on. In the meantime, she's learned how to read and count Funk Rhythms, play Walking Bass, Slap and do all sorts of Musical Techniques and Ideas outside of her comfort zone. If TAB walked her up that path to Teen Town I'm not above using it.

 

[Revolver]

Seriously ... standart notation exist for more than 500 years, many people learned it, why suddently bass player and guitar player whine about it and create a new code ( and very weak one ).

Not as well devised as standard notation. No question . . .

"New" code? . . . I don't think so . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature



My 2¢ . . .

I learned to play bass by ear . . . then had to learn to read to get into one of those renowned music schools . . . got good at it and it definitely makes things much easier, but . . . IME, you only get to use it (more often than not) in certain genres and situations (like the poster who does the musical theater gig thing). In pop, rock and even jazz, this is is usually not the case (unless you are a session player a la Mr. Miller or Mr. Jackson). On the other hand, understanding chord structure and harmonic movement is incredibly useful in pretty much any situation.

Also, I've met some seriously gifted readers that, oddly enough, were horrible improvisers. Why? They never developed their ears and without any sheets in front of them, they are clueless.

One more thing . . .

Sight reading is like a lot of skills in life. If you don't use it, you lose it.

 

[Roy Vogt]

True enough!

I'm not speaking on behalf of BP, but I think ditching tab is a risky choice from a commercial standpoint. No value judgement about whether tab sucks, or is "the people's way" or whatever. Bottom line is not everyone reads notation and tab is a widely known, alternative medium of musical exchange. I think it's not well suited to professional circumstances, but transcriptions and columns in BP are there to instruct and illustrate. If I can get even 30% more people to play through an example because I included tab, then that means the info reaches more people.

No, you won't see tab on a pro gig, though it's not out of the question that someone might use tab to learn tunes for a gig... Whitesnake tribute band? You're all set!

I think tab has legitimate uses when trying to illustrate certain fingerboard concepts, when you want someone to use a very specific placement or fingering... But getting political about it is just dumb.

I was lucky enough to learn how to read at an early age - so as dull as it was to pick out the melody to Do You Know The Way To San Jose... I endured because I was young and had no choice. But, it paid off.

I see a LOT of adult students that learn how to read after years of functioning in bands, etc. It's scary for some of them, because they are afraid to suck at something... but they soon find out it's not as hard to learn as they think. Book 1 of the HL Method has zero tab, it's a traditional, note-by-note approach to reading. Book 2 has tab... at the request of the publisher whose name appears on the cover... From their standpoint - they sell a LOT of books with tab, might as well teach people how to read it too.

Tab is a short cut. Sometimes a short cut is a bad thing, but not always.

That is a well thought out and good response. My name is Roy Vogt and I totally endorse this message. (Well, it is an election year! )

 

[BassChuck]

I'm not speaking on behalf of BP, but I think ditching tab is a risky choice from a commercial standpoint.......

I totally understand this. But, I don't read Tab. Never have and don't have a clue about how to use it. I find it annoying to have to deal with twice the page turns and probably a higher printing cost for a book with both standard notation and Tab.

My guess is that most people who read Tab have learned a lot by ear. Wouldn't the CD that comes with most books then be enough?

 

[Matthijs]

can anyone tell me what year it became cool to stay ignorant?

november 4 1980?

 

[SteveC]

I think tab has legitimate uses when trying to illustrate certain fingerboard concepts, when you want someone to use a very specific placement or fingering.

I see a LOT of adult students that learn how to read after years of functioning in bands, etc. It's scary for some of them, because they are afraid to suck at something... but they soon find out it's not as hard to learn as they think.

Tab is a short cut. Sometimes a short cut is a bad thing, but not always.

As usual, Ed speaks wisely.

 

[viper4000]

disclosure: I played tuba for nine years. Used to be able to read fluently and won many sight reading competitions. (As info, sight reading competitions on tuba means reading material usually meant for trumpets and such....very hard) I am trying to dust off my reading skills, but that is because I want to try my hand at DB.

I've played electric bass for 12 years, and I have never one time used, or felt it necessary to read. Then the typical TB response....how do you know what to play if you don't know how to read (selecting the correct passing notes to emphasize the chords, etc). Well, isn't that knowing theory, rather than knowing how to read notation? I mean, can you really walk up to a random symphonic trumpet player or violinist and ask them how to construct a C6add9? or do they just read what is written, and play the D or which ever note they are assigned?

After reading thread after thread on this topic, I fear most folks are confusing knowing theory with knowing how to read standard notation. I know which notes are on the staff, and I know some basics in theory. However, I don't believe one requires the other.

 

[dougjwray]

november 4 1980?

Yes! (You beat me to it!)
The era was was formally ushered in on January 20, 1981.

 

[dougjwray]

Jimmy, great post.
The way I look at it, sight reading ability = many more opportunities to play music and many fewer part time jobs flipping burgers to make ends meet while you use tabs to learn songs to play with your band in the basement.

 

[4OnTheFloor]

Awesome post!
Today's culture is structured around resisting hard work and receiving instant gratification. If this statement seems elitist, then you may be one of those people, diagnose yourself and stop making excuses, quit being pretentious, and put in the hours... It's almost like we need to raise awareness of laziness as a disease much like we raise awareness about racism, sexual preference, and other various controversial topics.
That being said, we need tab for economic reasons. All those people who don't have a clue about reading music can quickly learn how to play their favorite songs via tab to keep buying gear and keep prices down.
The "crutch" factor of guitar and bass is the simplicity built in to the instrument, that's why tabs are soo popular. Try transposing from Cmaj to Bmaj on piano...

 

[coyote1]

Wow. Can't find a flaw with that reasoning. So while I still will never use tab nor work with folks who do, I now no longer object to it. lol

That being said, we need tab for economic reasons. All those people who don't have a clue about reading music can quickly learn how to play their favorite songs via tab to keep buying gear and keep prices down.

 

[MikeBass]

Been playing almost 35 years professionally and never once needed to use tab, nor have I been asked to read tab.

The only time I can recall anyone dictating exact fingerings on a chart/notation was Zappa wanting specific notes played on/at specific strings/fret for tonal reasons.
And then, I'm not sure if that is urban legend or not.
I'll go on a limb and say it wasn't TAB'D out.

 

[dougjwray]

The only time I can recall anyone dictating exact fingerings on a chart/notation was Zappa wanting specific notes played on/at specific strings/fret for tonal reasons.
And then, I'm not sure if that is urban legend or not.
I'll go on a limb and say it wasn't TAB'D out.

Classical composers regularly specify which string they want the player(s) to use, for tonal reasons. The notation in the score for playing a passage on the G string, for example, is "sul G" ("sul" is Italian for "string").
Zappa might very well have used that notation in a score... or, if he'd been in rock 'n' roll mode, he'd have said, "Hey play that on the G string, willya?"

 

[azureblue]

Originally Posted by JimmyM
"Been playing almost 35 years professionally and never once needed to use tab, nor have I been asked to read tab."

Same here, but for a longer time,, Never once asked to read tab. Sheet music, charts, Nashvlle numbers, Real Book type charts, Big Band, pit band and orchestra music, sometimes either clef or "Read the left hand of the piano, will you?" Ack.

Learn to Read Music. Most of the posters here are not thinking beyond their instrument. A good bass player knows what the other guys are playing, and knowing how to read not only bass parts but Trumpet, Piano, Sax, etc., It goes a very long way towards making a player a musician. And there is a vast gulf between the two. If you do not read you cut yourself off from a whole world of music and communication with other musicians.

I can see an advantage to it in certain situations, but that would be for learning only: As an example, the melody to Donna Lee can be played several ways, in different positions. I figured out the positions and fingerings myself, and kept running into position change issues during the learning process, and it would have been a big help if I had an idea of how Jaco played it. Tab would help to shed light on the link between fingering patterns and phrasing, for sure.

And like MikeBass says, there are reasons for playing in certain positions on the neck that relate to tonality, but, like on a violin / string part, that can be indicated on a chart.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I can see an advantage to it in certain situations, but that would be for learning only: As an example, the melody to Donna Lee can be played several ways, in different positions. I figured out the positions and fingerings myself, and kept running into position change issues during the learning process, and it would have been a big help if I had an idea of how Jaco played it. Tab would help to shed light on the link between fingering patterns and phrasing, for sure.

That is so true, but the one thing we lose by having the TAB is all we learn by doing it those several different ways. At that point we're teaching ourselves a lot about technique, knowledge of the neck, etc. The TAB may be the best choice (lots of times it's not) but it takes away the choice of the player if they don't choose to ignore it.
Case in point: I learned a totally new (to me) technique of P-I-M or P-I-M-A fingerpicking by attempting to play Victor Wooten's solo on "Sinister Minister" before I had seen him do it. That's a technique that Abe Laboriel has used for years and now lots of the young Willis Ramp crowd (Damien Erskine, Matt Garrison, Hadrien Feraud, etc.) have appropriated but I learned my spin on it by attempting something and doing it the "wrong" way before I knew what the right way was.

 

[JimmyM]

The Zappa story is not urban legend according to Steve Vai, who copied it in his own band and often dictates fingerings to the other players. But if you don't think fingering can be dictated through notation, you would be wrong about that. Put a little number above the note indicating which finger you should use, put a string letter with a line under the notes that need to be played on that string, switch it when you switch strings, and whammo.

Not that anyone but Frank Zappa, Steve Vai, and beginner reading books do that, but it's entirely possible to give you every single piece of the puzzle, including fingerings and weird stuff like slides and whammy bar bends.

 

[Febs]

I think that it is probably worth pointing out that tab tells you only what fret to play on. It doesn't provide any information about fingering.