Reading Standard Notation: Seeing intervals relative to key?

[OldSchoolFlats]

Just don't get stuck in first position with an extension up the G string for higher notes.

Yep: that's what I did back in the mid-80s...

 

[Ekulati]

Another angle here is I don't, and would guess most players here generally don't use sheet music to learn music other than classical, musicals as part of pit band, complex prog, etc. Unless it's just for sight-reading practice, which can be valuable. As others have stated, fingerings, positions often need some advance working out. Easier to do that by ear, IMO.

 

[JimmyM]

I really want to learn to read standard notation on bass, but want to get on the right track.

With clarinet or sax it was simple: one note on staff *always* was fingered the same way. With bass, though, there are options. Also, unlike sax or clarinet, it is easy to transpose by moving up or down X frets.

OK, now my question. I found standard notation for a favorite song of mine: “Give it to me baby” by Rick James. 4 sharps, so key of E major. Find the “Es” on the staff. See the intervals, relative to the E major scale. Easy! I’m pretty good with scales, modes and intervals, so I could actually see the connection between those scales I practiced so much, and the “written music” I had as a kid on sax/clarinet.

But too easy?

Does the above sort-of make sense, or is it really necessary to learn positions, Simandl, etc? I know I need to be more comfortable with knowing where ALL the notes are on the fretboard and staff (which I am working on), but I am hoping that “seeing the intervals/scale” relative to the key is a valid way to read bass.

I am worried with positional/Simandl type playing, I would always struggle remembering sharps and flats in keys other than C.

Hopefully my question makes sense...

Seeing the intervals...of course it's always a good thing. Seeing the sharps and flats in the music when they're only written in the key signature? Very good. Reducing every piece of music you get to a scale or a position? Bad. Scales don't always apply, especially when you get stuff written with a lot of accidentals. People who play by scales often find themselves stuck in ruts where they sound like they're playing scales, and they find themselves caught short when they suddenly get yanked out of their comfort zones.

 

[JimmyM]

Another angle here is I don't, and would guess most players here generally don't use sheet music to learn music other than classical, musicals as part of pit band, complex prog, etc. Unless it's just for sight-reading practice, which can be valuable. As others have stated, fingerings, positions often need some advance working out. Easier to do that by ear, IMO.

Having a good ear is always nice, but there's no reason not to learn how to read music. When you can do it, you can get better paying gigs that were previously not open to you. And I find it gives you a much better understanding of what you're hearing even if you don't use it on gigs.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

...
People who play by scales often find themselves stuck in ruts where they sound like they're playing scales, and they find themselves caught short when they suddenly get yanked out of their comfort zones.

Hey! I represent that remark!

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Thé lowest and highest notes of a passage is really the first thing I look for since a position may lend itself perfectly for it.

Then it is a only a matter of playing it. I only stop when a phrase could be played better in another position or shifting at a different place to keep it fluent...

 

[Ekulati]

Having a good ear is always nice, but there's no reason not to learn how to read music. When you can do it, you can get better paying gigs that were previously not open to you. And I find it gives you a much better understanding of what you're hearing even if you don't use it on gigs.

True. Never said not to learn to read notation. I did say that, for me, it's rare that I use it to learn a tune from the general rock/ popular music umbrella. I'm now in a soul band, 7-9pc with horns. Lotta classic stuff I never the chance to play. Some tunes with specific parts I prefer to nail. I just figure them out, no need for sheet music. Just saying guessing many of us here are the same. Now, notation can also be great for expanding your vocabulary, a learning tool. So it's both.

 

[mambo4]

Now, notation can also be great for expanding your vocabulary, a learning tool.

What people rarely mention about pursing notation: It improves your rhythm. In my experience , anyhow.
The difference between intuiting and knowing subdivisions and syncopations is night and day for me.
Also: things ambiguous when spoken are 100% concrete when notated. There is a benefit of clarity.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

What people rarely mention about pursing notation: It improves your rhythm. In my experience , anyhow.
The difference between intuiting and knowing subdivisions and syncopations is night and day for me.
Also: things ambiguous when spoken are 100% concrete when notated. There is a benefit of clarity.

What I have trouble with is foot tappin'.

Back when dinosaurs ruled, and I was a "wee lad" in a chair with a clarinet, foot tapping was easy.

Since I generally prefer to stand when I play bass though, vigorous foot tapping requires me to place most weight on one leg (not comfortable). Toe tapping is too subtle for a "big lug" like me.

Still, I think knowing the syncoptions/rhythms in standard notations is CRITICAL. I say this, because I don't (know), and always want to play on the down-beat.

I read years ago, had a drummer and music teachers before that tell me, and saw on several YouTube videos for counting complex rhythms, that counting 1e+a, 2e+a is KEY.

One video had a g'tar player play all the combinations of sixteenth notes and rests: there are 16. I do great on the one that is all rests , but many give me trouble.

In addition to a bass intro book I am working on, I got a copy of MuseScore, and entered the standard notation transcription of "Give it to me baby" by Rick James so I could use the playback feature, with SoundFonts. No slap involved, but most of it is syncopated, which I have a lot of trouble with. Working on it, though.

BTW, in spite of my fears, I find that reading and writing bass-parts quickly forces you to learn the notes by letter-name.

1e+a, 2e+a...

 

[OptimalOptimus]

What people rarely mention about pursing notation: It improves your rhythm. In my experience , anyhow.
The difference between intuiting and knowing subdivisions and syncopations is night and day for me.
Also: things ambiguous when spoken are 100% concrete when notated. There is a benefit of clarity.

So true !

 

[mambo4]

One video had a g'tar player play all the combinations of sixteenth notes and rests: there are 16.

I dare say there are more than 16, depending on length of rest
I use Cliff Engle's PDF to practice rhythm reading, it has done me good.
Anthony's 'Yardstickof rhtyhm" is a good intro to subdivisions

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

I dare say there are more than 16, depending on length of rest
I use Cliff Engle's PDF to practice rhythm reading, it has done me good.
Anthony's 'Yardstickof rhtyhm" is a good intro to subdivisions

Friggin' AWESOME!!

 

[SteveCS]

One video had a g'tar player play all the combinations of sixteenth notes and rests: there are 16

That depends if you play the rests. Here, section A includes all 16 of the semiquaver subdivisions (of a single beat) you mention. Section B replaces all of the rests in a beat with sound sustained from the previous note. So a 1/16 followed by a 1/16 rest becomes 1/8, and so on. Other than beat 1, duplicates have been removed. Played by a percussion player the rhythms would be the same, but played by a bass player the feel is totally different.

 

[JimmyM]

True. Never said not to learn to read notation. I did say that, for me, it's rare that I use it to learn a tune from the general rock/ popular music umbrella. I'm now in a soul band, 7-9pc with horns. Lotta classic stuff I never the chance to play. Some tunes with specific parts I prefer to nail. I just figure them out, no need for sheet music. Just saying guessing many of us here are the same. Now, notation can also be great for expanding your vocabulary, a learning tool. So it's both.

Do your horn guys read?