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Double Bass Realist Lifeline vs. Full Circle, Output

Hi all,

I know there are few people here that have used both the new Gage Realist Lifeline and the Fishman Full Circle pickups. I have found some useful comparisons of their tone, but I would also very much like to know how they compare in terms of raw output when used passively, without a buffer.

I'm not talking about useful volume before feedback. Just passive output.
 
Kind of hard to say, actually. I'd say they're roughly even, at least on the bass here at the shop. Both pickups are under direct pressure, which normally results in more output compared to a pickup that is "stuck" or clamped on. So in that way, they are in the same ballpark.

But it's kind of like apples and oranges, since the character of the tone is rather different. The FC, IME, has more mid presence, while the LL has more low end girth with a less midd-y character. So the differences in ACTUAL volume (measured on a sound meter) might not necessarily correlate to the PERCEIVED volume, especially once you put it in context with a band and start tweaking EQs to get the tone you like.
 
I didn't quantitatively measure it when I tried out the LifeLine for the first time, but to my ears, through the same rig that I've been using for years (a Full Circle into an SWR Baby Blue), the LifeLine had a noticeably louder output into the amp.
 
This is a really old thread but I was hoping someone could help me with an issue I have. I had the realist and (like I just found out is common) it crapped out on me yesterday. I was hoping someone could let me know the pros and cons of the Full Circle and the LifeLine. I really just want something reliable, the spirocore of pickups if you will.
 
My read on it is this - both pickups sound good, but they have different characters, despite being in almost the exact same position on the bass bridge. In my experience (but not universally) the Full Circle has a bit more midrange clarity, which can help cut through a dense mix; the Lifeline has a more "open" mid/high range sound on most basses, with a thicker bottom end, like the original Realist (but with more detail than the original Realist.) But these are subjective points, and they can vary depending on the bridge (quality, threads-up vs threads-down, etc.) - so take them with a grain of salt.
 
I think I'll go with the Full Circle mainly because I like the idea of a little more midrange clarity that you were mentioning (something I wish I had more with the realist) and I like where it's placed on the bass (in between the strings). Mark keep an eye out for a shipment to New Orleans
 
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I was using the LifeLine and Full Circle at the same time. Mark is right about the numerous variables. My FC had just a little less output. My bridge dictates that I have my FC Piezo's down, aimed at the top of the bass. This installation gives a little less of the bridge and more of the low end, sorta kinda somewhat like a Realist. (sorta, kinda)
I found the LifeLine had a more usable sound than most of the other pickups I've tried. With the right eq you can get a wide
tonal pallet. However, I still like the FC more. A wider, more musical tone right out of the box. Both great pickups, and Gollihur has about as good a price as you'll find on either.
 
There's no such thing as a pickup that never breaks - but the newer Full Circles have been improved, and the Lifeline looks sturdy (the one on my bass is one of the first ones made and I'm still loving it!)

Mark,

Have you noticed any feedback problems in loud playing situations with the Lifeline vs the FC? I just upgraded my bass from a Chinese ply to a German New Standard and switched the Lifeline to the new bass. I'm having a heck of a time with feedback. I suspect it might be just the difference in quality of the bass. Thanks, Ken
 
Another point:
The tone (or output) of the Full Circle can be manipulated to some extent by rotating the adjuster.
Is the same true for the Lifeline?

Not that I am aware of. It has one designed position, don't know how rotating it would change anything. I have doubts, but haven't tried it.
 
Mark,

Have you noticed any feedback problems in loud playing situations with the Lifeline vs the FC? I just upgraded my bass from a Chinese ply to a German New Standard and switched the Lifeline to the new bass. I'm having a heck of a time with feedback. I suspect it might be just the difference in quality of the bass. Thanks, Ken

It's probably the bass. With a more resonant top, it's far more affected by the sounds of the amplifier and excited into feedback then a laminated bass is. That would be my guess, anyway.
 
I recently switched from a Lifeline to Full Circle. I used a Full Circle quite a few years ago, but it’s been a while and I honestly can’t remember why I switched. I probably just wanted to try different pickups.

I may have been standing too close to my amp to get a good idea of my amplified sound during my last gig, but everyone in the band and a few folks in the audience said my sound was clear and focused. Some of them weren’t even aware I was using a different pickup but mentioned I was easier to hear than usual.

P.S. I’m always torn between reviving an old thread or creating a new one. These are the philosophical thoughts that keep me awake at night.
 
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I recently switched from a Lifeline to Full Circle....everyone in the band and a few folks in the audience said my sound was clear and focused. Some of them weren’t even aware I was using a different pickup but mentioned I was easier to hear than usual.

This tracks. The timbres of each pickup are not the same; the Full Circle has a bit of midrange "push," which can help with clarity and breaking through a dense instrumental mix. Whereas, the midrange of the Lifeline is more "open" and subtle, and its bass response is warmer and fuller than the Full Circle.

Which is "better?" Either may be better for a particular player based on their band, their bass, or their musical style. A player in a duo or trio might favor the more natural sound of the Lifeline, where their own instrument's sound is not fighting for as much sonic space in the smaller ensemble. But a player in a larger band and/or louder group might do better with the Full Circle, as its more "brash" response helps their bass to not get "lost in the sauce," without having to have their volume in the mix be "too loud" and overwhelming the band/room in other parts of the sonic spectrum.

And in the mix, it still sounds great. It's a common trap to choose a pickup based on what one sounds best to you, playing by yourself in your living room at home. But what sounds best soloed doesn't always work out best in the context of the band - all the subtlety can get overwhelmed by the sheer need to "slot into" the mix of other instruments. Ask a mixing engineer! (Or, listen to one of those YouTube clips of Paul McCartney's isolated bass tracks from classic Beatles tunes - those great bass lines sound AWFUL when listened to naked and out of context!)

This is why it's a faulty premise to ask, "What is the BEST upright bass pickup?" Each one has its pros and cons, and I always find out what the player's needs are before steering him/her in one direction of many.

On a side note, remember that the Full Circle's tone is somewhat "tune-able" - the wheel with the elements inside actually has 4 transducers, arranged in a "cross" pattern. Turning the wheel within a quarter-turn's adjustment actually shifts where those transducers sit (1/8 of a turn changes the "cross" to an "X" pattern, for instance - see below).

upload_2024-4-26_7-22-42.jpeg


Shifting how the pickups are aligned can actually alter the tone through phase adjustments and other changes, so it allows for a noticeable adjustment in tonal response, without making a major change in height/action. I suggest putting a "dot" on the adjuster with a Sharpie marker to allow one to monitor what placements work best (you can also use the entry point of the wire as a landmark).
 

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