Yes.
If they give me time to get comfortable with, I'll play it in any key they want.
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Really? Change the key again?
- Thread starter Samophlange
- Start date
Yes.
If they give me time to get comfortable with, I'll play it in any key they want.
It has nothing to do with willingness. It has everything to do with physical limitations. The singer in the OPs band might not be comfortable in the same range as the original.
Here's the thing. If you play the right songs, and with the right energy, nobody in the audience cares (except, of course, the two or three OCD weirdos that manage to have a problem with just about any scenario here). I fill in with several female artists. We do all kinds of guy songs as much as a full 4th up. Nobody cares. Anyone who gives a crap there we're playing "You Shook Me All Night Long" up a step and a half can take their sorry attitude to another bar to ruin their party. Geeeeeez. My Grandfather said it right. "There are some people you could give a $100 bill to and they would somehow find a problem with it."
If you are offended by key changes you are in the wrong business. And "pushing" the lead vocalist is just silly. If you push them enough, they will blow out their chords. I promise you nobody will care how awesome your bass sounds when the singer gets a throat full of flat tires halfway through the second set. Everyone here should be able to drop (transpose) a song on the fly. If the singer has done 5 shows that week, or even has alergies, he/she should be able to turn around to the band and say "Hey guys, let's drop this one a whole step." Why do you think Nashville uses numbers instead of letters/notes on their charts? It's so they can read it in any key no problem and change on the fly.
What a snarky thread.
I'm in a cover band, and we mostly play things in Eb. A lot of our setlist is native to that, but some we take down. No one cares. There are very few songs that sound significantly worse with a minor key change. For out corporate shows, we have a female vocalist and we take some of the rockier songs up a fourth, sounds awesome.
I am firmly results-oriented; if you're putting out a good product, and it's making everyone in the band able to give a high-quality, durable performance, there's no problem. I don't buy the whole 'integrity of the cover' thing that I've heard some musicians in my local scene go on about; no one's showing up to hear a perfect reproduction, they're hear to drink and dance and watch you rock out. Do it with gusto, like you've got nothing to apologise for, like it's a choice rather than an accommodation.
I'm in a cover band, and we mostly play things in Eb. A lot of our setlist is native to that, but some we take down. No one cares. There are very few songs that sound significantly worse with a minor key change. For out corporate shows, we have a female vocalist and we take some of the rockier songs up a fourth, sounds awesome.
I am firmly results-oriented; if you're putting out a good product, and it's making everyone in the band able to give a high-quality, durable performance, there's no problem. I don't buy the whole 'integrity of the cover' thing that I've heard some musicians in my local scene go on about; no one's showing up to hear a perfect reproduction, they're hear to drink and dance and watch you rock out. Do it with gusto, like you've got nothing to apologise for, like it's a choice rather than an accommodation.
- Jan 12, 2011
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I have played the same songs over and over but in different keys due to who was singing them. Part of being a musician.
I wonder how many people here realize that to have just one full octave of good strong range is a bit uncommon. and to get beyond an octave and a half without straining requires considerable professional training.
When people brag about a singer with more than 3 octave range they are including falsetto and practice singing ranges, not their unstrained performance range.
So if your singer asks you to shift keys, it's not because they suck, but because they are human.
When people brag about a singer with more than 3 octave range they are including falsetto and practice singing ranges, not their unstrained performance range.
So if your singer asks you to shift keys, it's not because they suck, but because they are human.
jive1
Commercial User
I have played songs in the original key and in an altered key. I have had yet to receive a comment from the audience or a client that we didn't play it in the original key. However, I have had comments from people who didn't think the vocals sounded right for a particular song.
I'd much rather play a song in a vocalist's wheelhouse than in the original key. For example, if I were to sing Don't Believing in the original key of E, I would have to sing it an octave lower to stay in pitch. But, if I did that, it wouldn't sound right because most people are used to hearing it in a higher register. I sing it in Gb or Bb, which lets me hit the notes in a higher register of my voice, thus making it sound more 'right' to the audience.
I'd much rather play a song in a vocalist's wheelhouse than in the original key. For example, if I were to sing Don't Believing in the original key of E, I would have to sing it an octave lower to stay in pitch. But, if I did that, it wouldn't sound right because most people are used to hearing it in a higher register. I sing it in Gb or Bb, which lets me hit the notes in a higher register of my voice, thus making it sound more 'right' to the audience.
jive1
Commercial User
+1
Every instrument has it's limits, and the human voice is one of the most limited in terms of range and timbre but almost limitless in terms of phrasing.
- You don't say a bass sucks because it doesn't sound like a guitar.
- Even the finest trumpet, played by the finest trumpet player won't ever sound like a tuba.
- You don't use an accordion if you want to play Metallica riffs and have it sound like the recording.
- Even the most elegantly played saxophone is still incapable of playing chords.
- A piano will never be able to phrase the way a violin does, even though it has the same range and beyond.
The voice is just another instrument. And like some instruments, certain keys are easier to play in and better suit the range of the instrument.
Last time I saw Stevie Wonder, he did "My Cherie Amour" in a dropped key (only a half step- I think he had a cold). I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who noticed in the crowd. Everyone else was... well, in ecstasy, or a state approaching it. If YOU can do that for your audience, then you have my blessing, and Stevie's too, I think.
I wonder if Nate Watts gave him grief about it?..
I wonder if Nate Watts gave him grief about it?..
Well, we tune half a step down, which in rock music will often mean we're in Eb, but not always.
And 5-string until recently. Maybe I've just never had the right bass, but I've never been able to reconcile the tone of a low B with an E; I like them both, but I have a hard time using the 5th fret B as I would use the E.
Although recently I've caught P-bass fever, and have all but abandoned my erbs. To wit I definitely agree with the point about playing in a fretted position, it's been a bit of an adjustment learning to play in a dropped tuning when necessary, rather than just always having those notes available.
I love the challenge of doing songs in different keys to accommodate the singers. Hell, in one of my bands, we might use a different key on the same songs in different nights just because the singer/leader decided. To me, it's a growth thing and a great way to avoid boredom of the same old songs.
Then again, I've never been much for caring about doing things the way they might have been recorded.
Then again, I've never been much for caring about doing things the way they might have been recorded.
Ok let me play at this.
I am pretty quick to transpose stuff BUT, take something like Back in Black- the riffs in that are tricky to do well even in standard E- short of tuning your whole bass down a WHOLE step to D would you folks MOVe this down simply? (not interested in 5 stringer standard response)
Would you still nail the cool riff during the guitar solos? Would you play the main riff with your higher D?
imho, if you want to move down then play ALL songs half step down.
I am pretty quick to transpose stuff BUT, take something like Back in Black- the riffs in that are tricky to do well even in standard E- short of tuning your whole bass down a WHOLE step to D would you folks MOVe this down simply? (not interested in 5 stringer standard response)
Would you still nail the cool riff during the guitar solos? Would you play the main riff with your higher D?
imho, if you want to move down then play ALL songs half step down.
Ha, since I posted last I learned Funk 49 in the original key, and I KNOW itll be dropped probably a step.
Very-fun song to play.
Very-fun song to play.
Haha, I was wondering what "purists" do about songs that aren't recorded to standard pitch. I just learned Hello It's Me, and that's off of standard. I've come across Stones songs that were like that too. I'm sure there must be others.
Has anyone else found a way to suggest to their singer that they need to at least try to sing in a different key. Or push their range a bit?
I'm noticing that every song that we learn lately gets transposed to a different key than the original to suit the vocalist.
Just try singing it in that range! Head voice! Head voice!
Its not really a big issue...I'm just a whiner because I have the song stuck in my head in the orginal key and have a hard time switching. Stupid stubborn brain.
No. Transpose.
For example, many pop songs are for a high tenor male voice. If your singer is a baritone, pretty much every song will have to come down a 4th. Get used to it, and also pick songs than feature baritone singers. Ditto for sopranos and altos.
Head voice? It sounds very different. Can be great sometimes, terrible other times. So find out what sounds best vocally and then all the other instruments switch to adjust.
But yes, you are correct, singers need to practice, and warm up before keying up songs. They need to study and work. If they key up a song in the morning, at home, thinking it sounds great, they'll often find out in the evening at performance time and singing fully, that they keyed up everything too low.
P&W band I'm in routinely changes song keys by 3-4 full steps! I don't agree with it, but I just shut up and do it. One positive outcome, however, is that the harmonies get inverted, so where the original might have a male lead with 2 females on high(er) harmony, here we'd have a high female lead with 2 females and 2 males doing low(er) harmonies. Some of it's 4-part. It can sound incredibly full/fat. For example, we do "Glorious" (Tomlin) way down in A, and I do the Christy Nockels harmony part below the female lead. It ain't typical, but it works.
Some other stuff doesn't work at all, at least for bass. They kick "Forty" (U2) all the way up to D from A, which pretty much puts the kibosh on doing the interesting Clayton bass things because now they're in way too high a register. Same deal with "Prepare Ye The Way." They do it up in C, which strips the bottom right out from under the song.
But . . . me shut up, me play, me be good boy, me give no reason to fire my ass.
Some other stuff doesn't work at all, at least for bass. They kick "Forty" (U2) all the way up to D from A, which pretty much puts the kibosh on doing the interesting Clayton bass things because now they're in way too high a register. Same deal with "Prepare Ye The Way." They do it up in C, which strips the bottom right out from under the song.
But . . . me shut up, me play, me be good boy, me give no reason to fire my ass.
