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really, how to be a better musician?

thehangingmist

thehangingmist

Dec 14, 2007
6,367
302
New Delhi, India
#1
honestly am really unhappy with my level of playing and musicianship. for the past few months i have been trying to work on many various aspects of being a bass player but i dont know if its working or not. please comment on the following, tell me whatever comes to your mind and add anything you may wish to

1.my ear is really no good at the moment i have been playing for 4 years but i guess i never used my ear and relied on tabs and help from others, so am trying to work at it because i know it only develops when you use it.
BUT even when i know the chords i cant come up with grooves i'd dig myself. its also maybe because am not playing with anyone where i really enjoy the music, am just playing with a bunch of different bands wherever i can or get to. i know the modes and the scales but i really remember i was using my mind and making groovy bass parts when i was playing with the bands i really loved playing with where the music was to my liking, but isnt that limiting yourself? to hard rock?

2.lessons/teacher: i cant find one here. i took lessons for a month in march from a guy but he didnt inspire me, he knew a lot but was my age and not really a teacher who could answer my questions. am still looking for some one who i can call my mentor and start learning under him

3.sometimes i want to lock myself in a room and really start working on things i know i'd really like to improve at. right now half my time goes into jamming in not so inspiring situations, but then i'd lose out on getting my name out there to get the gigs. on second thoughts if am not killer good why will people call me for gigs?

4.the things i am working at: ear training (figuring out songs by ear and soflege), speed training, reading, theory.
i dont know if my methods of working at these topics are really effective or not but i constantly discuss them with others and adopt the most understandable aproach
 
#2
I am very interested in being able to play jazz and blues well. I got this book:

Jump 'n Blues Bass http://www.amazon.com/Jump-Blues-Bass-Book-CD/dp/079359166X

I like it because it's not so much instructional or theory. Instead it actually gives somewhat of an analysis of the styles of a number of different specific bass players, along with written out charts of their signature bass lines.

I really feel like by going through it and playing along with the play-along tracks on the CD, it's helping me in a couple of ways: building up my reading chops, and giving me new ideas on ways to play things that can easily feel like they've become boring and repetitious.

If playing blues/swing kind of stuff isn't your bag, you could still try to find a similar book for whatever style of music you are interested in. I.e. something that gives you transcriptions of other bassist's music. Maybe learning to play a lot of other people's stuff will at least help you with the grooves part of your issue #1 above.
 
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#3
Hey.

The things that I'm going to say come from my personal experience in Music school, so they may or may not apply to you. Just take what you can and ignore the rest. lol.

varunkapahi said:
1.my ear is really no good at the moment i have been playing for 4 years but i guess i never used my ear and relied on tabs and help from others, so am trying to work at it because i know it only develops when you use it.
BUT even when i know the chords i cant come up with grooves i'd dig myself. its also maybe because am not playing with anyone where i really enjoy the music, am just playing with a bunch of different bands wherever i can or get to.
Click to expand...

I used to have problems with my ear, but I found that the best way to get a better ear is to transcribe.

There are a few things that I transcribe, based upon the situation and what I want to improve (In my case, these are all examples from Jazz repertoire, but any style will work):

- I transcribe solos (of all instruments) to work on my general "Hearing" of notes and lines.

- I transcribe Harmonic Progressions of tunes. This comes in handy when you're at a jam or a pickup gig that you haven't had time to prepare for.

- I transcribe Bass Lines and Walking Lines so that I can understand the role of the Bass in different kinds of music.

- I Transcribe Rhythms away from my bass in order to work on understanding rhythmic subdivision and manipulation.

All of those work together wonderfully and, eventually, you wont realize you're making progress until you sit in on a Jam and someone starts playing and you pick up where they're going at the same time as they do. It's a great feeling.

For the grooves, I think that listening to a ton of music that you're not familiar with might help you get a couple ideas for new lines.

Also, tabs can be useful in a few situations, but a basic understanding of notation reading is incredibly useful in situations where someone pulls out a chart suddenly. (This happens in small quartet gigs and Ensemble situations a lot to me, but I personally have to read from the "Real Book" a lot, so this one may or may not apply as much to you as to me. Regardless, it's still useful and can open a world of written music in a variety of styles that require analyzing).

varunkapahi said:
2.lessons/teacher: i cant find one here. i took lessons for a month in march from a guy but he didnt inspire me, he knew a lot but was my age and not really a teacher who could answer my questions. am still looking for some one who i can call my mentor and start learning under him
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think that you're going to have to just keep looking. Eventually, I'm sure you'll find someone you click with.

varunkapahi said:
3.sometimes i want to lock myself in a room and really start working on things i know i'd really like to improve at. right now half my time goes into jamming in not so inspiring situations, but then i'd lose out on getting my name out there to get the gigs. on second thoughts if am not killer good why will people call me for gigs?
Click to expand...

I think that you're probably better than you think you are. If you're getting called to Jams/gigs, then people obviously seem to like what you're doing. Take pride in that, regardless whether or not you really like what you're currently playing.

varunkapahi said:
4.the things i am working at: ear training (figuring out songs by ear and soflege), speed training, reading, theory.
i dont know if my methods of working at these topics are really effective or not but i constantly discuss them with others and adopt the most understandable aproach
Click to expand...

It's a long process, but you seem to be on the right road. Keep on it.

Good luck.
 
#4
Just keep working at what you are doing and expand your search to try to find the magic that inspires you. As far as a teacher goes if you can't find a bass player then find a "music teacher" it can be a piano player or other musician who you can learn from. Some of the most valuable lessons I learned about bass playing were from piano players and drummers.
You have got to develop your ear and creativity, listen to music you like and jam along.
 
#6
Getting out there playing with others is always a good thing, but the solo practice is also good for getting things down solid. Do whatever is most fun or exciting, that'll make learning much easier.

Also, if you hear anything you like, work with it. If it's a song, learn it and figure out how everything relates. If it's a certain riff or lick or fill etc. figure out how to play it, then analyse why it sounds so great to you. You'll build a great vocabulary with thing you really like which makes your playing a lot more interesting and more importantly, fun!
 
#7
Basshoofd said:
Getting out there playing with others is always a good thing, but the solo practice is also good for getting things down solid. Do whatever is most fun or exciting, that'll make learning much easier.

Also, if you hear anything you like, work with it. If it's a song, learn it and figure out how everything relates. If it's a certain riff or lick or fill etc. figure out how to play it, then analyse why it sounds so great to you. You'll build a great vocabulary with thing you really like which makes your playing a lot more interesting and more importantly, fun!
Click to expand...

great :)
 
#8
I always recommend that bass players work very hard on their rhythmic skills, and I think the best way to do this is to PUT DOWN THE BASS!

Varunkapahi, you are living in the middle of one of the richest musical cultures in the world when it comes to rhythm. Have you considered studying Hindustani talas? You wouldn't even have to pick up an instrument, just learning the talas using spoken syllables would greatly improve your metronome sense. I studied mridangam and also West African and Latin American hand drumming, and I am convinced these made me a better bass player!

These skills are especially important in jazz, where rhythmic sophistication and syncopation are a huge part of the music.

Don't give up, and good luck! Remember that any playing you do improves your playing, so long as you aren't engaging in bad habits that will be hard to break later. Work your lesson plan, jam with other musicians, and once in a while just sit down with your bass and no books or dvds and think, "Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I played this note and then this other note...."
 
#9
FromTheBassMent said:
I always recommend that bass players work very hard on their rhythmic skills, and I think the best way to do this is to PUT DOWN THE BASS!

Varunkapahi, you are living in the middle of one of the richest musical cultures in the world when it comes to rhythm. Have you considered studying Hindustani talas? You wouldn't even have to pick up an instrument, just learning the talas using spoken syllables would greatly improve your metronome sense. I studied mridangam and also West African and Latin American hand drumming, and I am convinced these made me a better bass player!

These skills are especially important in jazz, where rhythmic sophistication and syncopation are a huge part of the music.

Don't give up, and good luck! Remember that any playing you do improves your playing, so long as you aren't engaging in bad habits that will be hard to break later. Work your lesson plan, jam with other musicians, and once in a while just sit down with your bass and no books or dvds and think, "Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I played this note and then this other note...."
Click to expand...

i have just started playing with some indian classical guys, in a fusion sort of a outfit and its really amazing. i really never knew about all this music that i am getting to learn about
 
#11
Definitely, find a teacher. I think is very difficult to go learning by yourself. It possible to do it but in my opinion it will always take much more time to reach your goals. And that is if you are lucky to find your way through by yourself.

May be is time for you to form your own band??? Then you can built it around the music you enjoy.
 
#14
varunkapahi said:
4.the things i am working at: ear training (figuring out songs by ear and soflege), speed training, reading, theory.
i dont know if my methods of working at these topics are really effective or not but i constantly discuss them with others and adopt the most understandable aproach
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are piano teachers in your area. Find a good one and you'll get all the ear training, reading, theory you can stand and you'll know if the methods are effective or not if you can reproduce what you've been taught.

Moving your fingers on the piano will help your dexterity as well.

Paul Mccartney plays bass and piano pretty okay.
 
#15
I felt similar to what you're feeling now. Then my guitarist gave me "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten.

If you can find it, I highly reccomend it, it has great advice about playing music.

In terms of what you're doing now, the transcribing will DEFINITELY help, and playing with people who are more experienced is also a great way to improve. Get out there, get amongst it, and have fun.

All the best mate.
 
#16
varunkapahi said:
honestly am really unhappy with my level of playing and musicianship.
Click to expand...

There are very, very important things you can do which are free, or cost very little:

1.) Actively listen to music. Not passively. Listen first before trying to play anything. It amazes me the people who are trying to learn a song and even on 1st pass will try to play along without listening to it to hear what is going on and the context of the music. Don't be that person.

2.) Play with as many people as you can who are at least as good as you are, and ideally, just a little bit better. Do NOT play with people who are not as good as you are if you want to improve. (but for "fun" is certainly fine)

3.) Play in as many different situations you can that will help you grow as a musician. Don't play in ANOTHER blues band if you've already done that, UNLESS there are really good blues players that will up your game, despite familiarity with the genre.

4.) Make it a point to learn to play by ear to the point where you can match the recording note for note, nuance for nuance, and tone for tone. Start on even "easy" songs which you think are "beneath" you. Get those down perfect. Move up the scale to progressively harder pieces of music. You can learn lots of theory and all, but developing your ear is absolutely critical, and whatever your level of theoretical or analytical understanding which you can prove or think you have, does not necessarily have anything to do with how well you have developed your ears.

5.) Did I mention listen, listen, and listen yet?
 
#17
Codger said:
Learn to play piano.
Click to expand...

Stumbo said:
I'm sure there are piano teachers in your area. Find a good one and you'll get all the ear training, reading, theory you can stand and you'll know if the methods are effective or not if you can reproduce what you've been taught.

Moving your fingers on the piano will help your dexterity as well.

Paul Mccartney plays bass and piano pretty okay.
Click to expand...

i met a piano teacher couple of weeks back already and will be starting lessons in a couple of days but he will be teaching me ear training and theory. i dont know about really taking piano lessons and starting on a new instrument and spending time with it
 
#18
Brother,

Some people have the gift of a great ear. Others have to really work on it. I was 40 before I could tune a guitar from scratch. I see a few young guys who are truly gifted and seem to be able to pick up any song or style easily. But many many others can do the same thing, it just took a long time.

I used to never be able to figure out a song. Now I never even look at the cheat sheets (cause they're all wrong). Now I can sit down and figure out any song in a few minutes. i usually have it mostly figured out before it's over.

Always find players who are better than you so you can push yourself. And there are plenty of great players who will work with you because they are such ****ing ********, no one with any real talent will work with them (LOL).

Bottom line: Stay with it. It get easier the more you do it.
 
#19
varunkapahi said:
i met a piano teacher couple of weeks back already and will be starting lessons in a couple of days but he will be teaching me ear training and theory. i dont know about really taking piano lessons and starting on a new instrument and spending time with it
Click to expand...


The piano training will really help. Every musician should have a piano/keyboard. Sometimes it's easier to figure out something on the piano first.
 
#20
Thunderthumbs73 said:
There are very, very important things you can do which are free, or cost very little:

1.) Actively listen to music. Not passively. Listen first before trying to play anything. It amazes me the people who are trying to learn a song and even on 1st pass will try to play along without listening to it to hear what is going on and the context of the music. Don't be that person.

2.) Play with as many people as you can who are at least as good as you are, and ideally, just a little bit better. Do NOT play with people who are not as good as you are if you want to improve. (but for "fun" is certainly fine)

3.) Play in as many different situations you can that will help you grow as a musician. Don't play in ANOTHER blues band if you've already done that, UNLESS there are really good blues players that will up your game, despite familiarity with the genre.

4.) Make it a point to learn to play by ear to the point where you can match the recording note for note, nuance for nuance, and tone for tone. Start on even "easy" songs which you think are "beneath" you. Get those down perfect. Move up the scale to progressively harder pieces of music. You can learn lots of theory and all, but developing your ear is absolutely critical, and whatever your level of theoretical or analytical understanding which you can prove or think you have, does not necessarily have anything to do with how well you have developed your ears.

5.) Did I mention listen, listen, and listen yet?
Click to expand...

the thing about listening is i habitally listen passively as in i listen to it as sounds and never try to focus on the musical part really. i have to force myself to recognize the usual bits but most of it is just sounds to me. its only rarely i can really mentally figure out how a melody or chord progression is going
 

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