Reason for $$ for "up-scale" basses ?

[Charles Farley]

What could they possibly do to a solid body swamp ash body with a rock maple neck to make it "worth" $4500?

Lots of things. If you were to give the same piece of swamp ash and rock maple to Fender, Roger Sadowsky, and Michael Tobias, you'd wind up with 3 very different instruments. It's really up to the player to decide which instrument feels the best in your hands, and sounds the best to your ears. Everything else is secondary as far as I'm concerned.

I hope you live near a store where you can try some of these "$4500 basses." Some people react enthusiastically to (for example) a NYC Sadowsky, and others are very meh. Each opinion is valid (IMHO).

 

[MNAirHead]

Charles made a good point.

In my storage area, if we were to pay orignial list price for all of my gear, I'd probably have about 25,000 in basses... that said my guitar player came yelling out from a bathroom "that's the bass we need"

What was it?

A kid in our warehouse (work) had a cheap low end Court that I asked if I could set up for him.. it was VERY tough on playing.. was very pretty.

I'd spent about 3 hours with jewlers files setting it up.

Part of the botique cost (yes I own some) is being able to select the chunk of wood we're building from.. select the strings.. the hardware.. the electonics.. the neck.. etc.

I'll stick by the suggestion to buy something you like.. then take it in to be setup.

I'm always amazed by all the custom shop modulus I've played that action sucked.. the electronics were noisy.. neck bowed.. etc.

Good question before you spend your retirement funds.

 

[alembic5]

Lots of things. If you were to give the same piece of swamp ash and rock maple to Fender, Roger Sadowsky, and Michael Tobias, you'd wind up with 3 very different instruments. It's really up to the player to decide which instrument feels the best in your hands, and sounds the best to your ears. Everything else is secondary as far as I'm concerned.

I hope you live near a store where you can try some of these "$4500 basses." Some people react enthusiastically to (for example) a NYC Sadowsky, and others are very meh. Each opinion is valid (IMHO).

Excellent response! Play what works for you... what else matters? I have an Ibanez, 2 Peavey's and a Roscoe. Just let my Alembic go. I play all three of my 6 strings regularly. Why? Because they each have unique properties about them that make them better for certain things. One thing I notice that the boutique basses have... consistency. Nothing that hasn't been brough up before. It's the same reason you can get a SX P bass from Rondo music for $110. Decent quality parts, but they're assembled, quickly set up, and shipped out. Take that same bass, and give it to an experienced luthier for a setup, and suddenly you have a bass that plays like it cost at least $500. But... it may cost you an extra $150 to get it to that point. For me, it was all about finding the neck profile that I liked. Once I found that, it was easy to tweak the bass to get my sound. I don't care who's name is on the headstock... or head... or cab. Does it sound good? Can I afford it? Will it suit my needs? Those are the important questions. Enough of my rambling...

 

[Eilif]

It has been lightly touched on, but I can't emphasize enough that in purchasing a boutique bass there's alot that you don't see. As well as top quality components, you pay a premium for a persons time and knowledge.

Take a look through the "luthier's Corner" and follow some of the step by step builds you see there. It takes alot of time to put in the effort to make many of the "boutique" instruments you see. Many of them are made by one guy.

Let's add some numbers and run a vauge but telling example...

Jeandouh the builder is highly talented, and very fastidious in his work. He only puts out 30 instruments a year, and charges 3000 a pop, he grosses $90,000 dollars. However, once you subtract the cost of the pickups, hardware, wood, strings, shop equipment, advertising fees, insurance, business costs, equipment purchase and maintenance.....

He may only be making 50k a year or much less. Supposing he's a very good builder, isn't he worth that? Of course!

The truth is that alot of these small builders are incredibly underpaid. Is a 4k bass worth 3k more than a 1k bass? That's for you to decide, but remember you're not just paying for the bass...

One other note: If you were paying overseas workers even what we pay american line workers we wouldn't be quite so surprised at how much we pay for "boutique gear" (though we'd probably appreciate Fender MIA instruments more...)

 

[Kemet09]

OP, get the best bass you like that you can afford, and play it alot! Don't worry about basses you cannot afford. The truth is that if you look at the classified section, bassists who own boutique basses sell and trade them just as much as bassists who own cheaper basses. Getting that perfect high end bass does not mean that you will never lust after gear anymore than dating the prettiest woman or man will keep you from lusting after other company.

An ironic thought just occured to me: so many of my favorite bassists who play boutique basses actually played there most memorable lines on slightly modded Fenders. For example, Will Lee got famous as a session man in NYC playing a Fender Precision. All of the basslines that made me love Anthony Jackson between 1971-981 were played on Frankenstein Fenders that worked on himself. Chuck Rainey did all of the cool stuff that we remember on a P-bass with a bridge pickup. True enough all three now play sweet boutiques, but having a run of the mill bass did not keep them from playing great music! We all need to remember this when we start GAS-ing.

Word up Dr C!!!

I always look @ Vic W's brother Reggie Wooten. This dude, last time I saw him, was playing a Japanese Fender Squire Strat thru a PV 1-12 amp buzzing & all & he was simply put, phenominal!!! (but not simply spelled, lol) Im pretty sure cats mentioned Jamerson by now.

Most of the stuff that moved me early on to know was played on a production axe! Im hard press to name some boutique joints in any mass number, but Of course, Stanley's Alembic, Vic's Fodera, Alphonso Johnson's "what ever that thing was he played..". I guess I should mention Marcus' JBass because it was so heavily modded.

Hey, if you want a rocket ship, get a rocket ship. Just keep it all in perspective. & most of all remember this guy ------>

 

[TLW]

Right. Why does a Porsche cost what it does, when it doesn't significantly outperform, say, a Subaru STI or Mitsu EVO?
There are reasons. Whether you agree that they're *good* reasons is your personal choice.

The reason Porsche costs more is little supply yes...but youre also forgetting the attention to detail in the interior and exterior.

Both the STI and EVO are heavily lacking in interior detail. STI is the worst in the interior. Now, I love those cars, but they arn't made to be extravagant looking on the inside, they are rally performance cars. The porsche is not. STI and EVO does NOT have the same audience as Porche.

That being said.

An American Standard precision bass is not going to have the same attention to detail as say a ZON.

But one could argue the performance part.

For some people, its all about fit, finish and detail, while still performing great. For others, its just getting from point A to point B, not how cool you look while doing it, but rather how fast.

 

[Just Thumpin']

+1 on on that!

Compare the body of work by folks playing basic fenders to the body of work by those playing upscale basses and, well, there is no comparison. James Jameson and Jaco. Need more be said?

Victor Wooten, Anthony Jackson, Oteil Burbridge, Richard Bona, Matt Garrison, Kenny Davis, Tommy Shannon, Lincoln Goines, Tom Kennedy....

Their body of work is pretty impressive and they are just a small portion of Fodera's players (not even thinking about all of the other high-end builders). I would bet that if Jaco were alive today, he wouldn't be using a standard Jazz bass...the two you mentioned played before there were any high end basses. Also, Fenders WERE the high-end instruments of their day.

 

[Fretlessboy]

I always love these threads. The guys playing high end basses are pegged as wanting a status piece. Why spend $3000 on a bass when $300 is just as good. Why spend $3000 on an amp when $700 will do? What makes a 1965 P bass an better than a 2009 Squire? I guess nothing. Ask any one who paid $2000 to $5000 for a bass if they didn't wish they could have paid $900 for it. I bet they would have said "yes". I play 2 Smith 5's and 1965 P bass. Why ? Because nothing plays better.I have been playing 25 years and have worked my way up to these. They do what I need them to do. My Smith's do $95 of my work without having to think about it. So if some one is willing to spend it on perfection than they should have that right to play them and not be ridiculed for it. Just my thought.

 

[Just Thumpin']

BTW, purely as a point of interest. When released in 1960, a Fender Jazz cost $279.50 which is $2,005.84 in today's (2008) dollars. So, this certainly was NOT an inexpensive bass back then....

 

[spade2you]

BTW, purely as a point of interest. When released in 1960, a Fender Jazz cost $279.50 which is $2,005.84 in today's (2008) dollars. So, this certainly was NOT an inexpensive bass back then....

Probably what a new Geddy will cost in about 2 years.

 

[uglybassplayer]

I can commonly make a $80 craigslist out play a common $4000 bass... it takes me about 10 hours with jewlers files, sand paper, testing a few types of strings, opening it up and cleaning up some electronics etc...

...I've been buying tons and tons of $200-450 basses lately that will compete on a blindfold test with a $4000 bass.

Do I smell a TB smackdown challenge brewing?

 

[WillPlay4Food]

Hey, I'm not saying that a 6-string fretless Ken Lawrence C-brase isn't well constructed, but compared to the price and technology difference between a Ford Escape and a Lamborghini Murcielago?

What brought this to my attention, was my extensive search for a custom "boutique" bass. Dave Pushic will most likely be getting $1000 + of my return. I was mainly wondering if I had somehow missed something in my search. Seems that I didn't. Thanks for your responses.

I would do a search on Dave Pushic before giving him money. I'm not sure if things are different today but a couple years ago there were some non-pleased DP customers venting their frustrations here.

 

[fullrangebass]

It has been lightly touched on, but I can't emphasize enough that in purchasing a boutique bass there's alot that you don't see. As well as top quality components, you pay a premium for a persons time and knowledge.

+1000. The proper application of informed knowledge is expensive. And it's a part of the price tag.

 

[Surly]

I'd love to play a Custom Shop Fender P, but they're never at my local shops!

 

[Fretlessboy]

lol...and it really isn't now if you have one in good condition

BTW, purely as a point of interest. When released in 1960, a Fender Jazz cost $279.50 which is $2,005.84 in today's (2008) dollars. So, this certainly was NOT an inexpensive bass back then....

 

[FenderP]

I always look @ Vic W's brother Reggie Wooten. This dude, last time I saw him, was playing a Japanese Fender Squire Strat thru a PV 1-12 amp buzzing & all & he was simply put, phenominal!!! (but not simply spelled, lol) Im pretty sure cats mentioned Jamerson by now.

Remember that the 80s Japanese Squier Strats (i.e. the lawsuit era when you also had Tokai, et al.) are different beasts than, say, when things originally went to Mexico. The Japanese stuff has always been of higher quality and part of the reason that era is so popular is that they were made as good as or better than USA ones at the time for what amounted to be less in terms of cost.

 

[chadds]

A can of whuup ass won't open itself either. But someone is asking for it and someone is bringin' it.

 

[chadds]

I have a $340 Japanese '51 RI. It does things in some genres of music that are just perfect. Same with my American '57 RI.

Now my boutique packs the punch and all around sound to work in every kind of music. I can dial up huge bass and treble and mids way beyond that less expensive basses. Conversely the control of these tones is excellent. I can play every note on every fret. I can play chords all night long and each note within each chord rings clearly.The neck came nearly straight with fantastic action that was actually too low for me.

The hardware and electronics selected by the builder are not a hit and miss situation as if I tried to change out PUs pre bridge etc. on a less expensive bass. Some boutique builders also choose and store their own selections of woods that they again reselect when they are properly dry.

As much as we like the sound of swamp ash, Leo was picking up this scrub wood for it's cheap price. Again we do like the sound.

 

[Barkless Dog]

A good example is Lakland Skyline vs USA Lakland.

With the plek'ing now and if you can get a reasonable weight bass, I really don't see, feel or hear a difference.

My Skyline Decade is perfect quality, amazing neck & action and the same USA hardware & electronics & even set up at the US shop. Tell me again why pay so much more for a USA other than snob appeal-used resale value goes out the window as a difference?

Vintage is a different story. You just cant get that Koa 80's BC Rich Eagle today.


Used will always get you the most bang for your buck either way.

 

[WhiteKnuckles]

Are my Warwicks, at 3 times the price of my Ibanezes, 3 times the bass? Absolutely. Even though the Ibbys are perhaps slightly easier to play...the fit, finish, tone, and parts are all vastly superior on the 'Wicks.

That said, I do think the rule of diminishing returns apply to basses. Is a Fodera 3 times the bass as a Warwick, or a Roscoe 2 times...I don't believe so, but I wouldn't question if they were nicer basses because they are.

Yet, when you are looking at basses like those, you're not paying more for the bass as strictly an instrument to play...you're are paying for the hands on craftsmanship, the exclusivity, the actual 'art' that comes out of these shops.

They might not be worth the price as just a 'bass', but as a functional work of art? Sure, I would if I could.