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Reason for $$ for "up-scale" basses ?

WRXbase

WRXbase

Jan 14, 2009
431
8
Clayton, NC
www.facebook.com
#1
I've noticed that unless you're buying a mass produced, plain-looking bass(aka single color Jazz/P-bass), prices get SILLY in short order.

I've been looking for a tax-refund check bass(about $ 1k). There are a SICK amount of basses that START at $1600+. What is the difference in a solo builder selling a bass for $900 and a $4500 Drozd/Sadowski/Lull ... ?

What could they possibly do to a solid body swamp ash body with a rock maple neck to make it "worth" $4500?

(Don't get me wrong. I know that quality basses don't fall from the sky; they have to be built with skill)
 
#2
I don't think your looking hard enough. True, high-end builders charge $4K + for their product, but there are mid-range builders out there... but $1k isn't going to cut it unless you buy used - and even the, you REALLY have to shop. You can get a used Zon for around that...I just sold my roscoe 5 string for $1225...

Deals can be had - just not on new basses. Kinda like high end cars.
 
#3
Welcome to talkbass! This topic comes up frequently, so some searching with the powerful Google-Talkbass search function will turn up a lot of info and debate on this.

Just a thought for you, though. Prices in a capitalist system are not determined by costs of raw material, or labour, or rent, or any of those kind of things. They are determined by supply and demand. Since there is a demand for such basses, the prices will be high.

Do try out some of the nicer basses you mention, too. You may figure out for yourself, instead of taking our word for it.
 
#4
Right. Why does a Porsche cost what it does, when it doesn't significantly outperform, say, a Subaru STI or Mitsu EVO?
There are reasons. Whether you agree that they're *good* reasons is your personal choice.
 
#5
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#6
Guitars are status symbols no different than cars. Many (not all) of these people buy these really expensive guitars because they serve as status symbols among musicians. You can get a killer bass for around a grand if you shop, it just might be one that there are a lot of and doesn't get the attention that an expensive bass does. Remember that it's not what you play but how you play it. I'm not knocking the really high end instruments, to each his own but they aren't necessary to be a good player.
 
#9
RexNFX79 said:
Guitars are status symbols no different than cars. Many (not all) of these people buy these really expensive guitars because they serve as status symbols among musicians. You can get a killer bass for around a grand if you shop, it just might be one that there are a lot of and doesn't get the attention that an expensive bass does. Remember that it's not what you play but how you play it. I'm not knocking the really high end instruments, to each his own but they aren't necessary to be a good player.
Click to expand...
Maybe not, but you seem to be knocking the owners of these instruments. Status symbols among musicians? I think a decent argument can be made that a USA Fender serves as more of a status symbol in a group of musicians than a little known boutique builder.

Mike
 
#11
Hey, I'm not saying that a 6-string fretless Ken Lawrence C-brase isn't well constructed, but compared to the price and technology difference between a Ford Escape and a Lamborghini Murcielago?

What brought this to my attention, was my extensive search for a custom "boutique" bass. Dave Pushic will most likely be getting $1000 + of my return. I was mainly wondering if I had somehow missed something in my search. Seems that I didn't. Thanks for your responses.
 
#12
RexNFX79 said:
Guitars are status symbols no different than cars. Many (not all) of these people buy these really expensive guitars because they serve as status symbols among musicians. You can get a killer bass for around a grand if you shop, it just might be one that there are a lot of and doesn't get the attention that an expensive bass does. Remember that it's not what you play but how you play it. I'm not knocking the really high end instruments, to each his own but they aren't necessary to be a good player.
Click to expand...

Really? VERY few of the musicians I've encountered had even heard of Sadowsky. Most of them thought I was playing a cheapo Fender knockoff (until they heard the tone, that is).

I could care less what's on the headstock. If I ever find a Fender that plays as well as my Sadowsky, I'll sell the Sadowsky and happily pocket the difference (actually, realistically I'd probably spend the difference on more bass gear, but you get the idea).

To the OP: I'd look at Valenti if I were seeking a high-end custom bass on a budget.
 
#14
Yeah, like I said, I'm not knocking the high end basses. If that's your thing and you like them then play them and be happy. No one can deny that many musicians use their gear as a status symbol. I'm not trying to insult anyone but everyone knows these people are out there but everyone has had that conversation with musicians that would rather tell you what gear they have than what their musical vision is. Apparently I struck a nerve?
 
#15
There are a LOT of reasons. Some is that small makers don't have the economy of scale that big makers get. Fender probably uses more 250K pots in a month than Dan Lakin uses in a year. Then you add in the wider range of instruments that a mass-market company like FMIC makes- that allows them to spread the fixed components of cost around a lot more.

Laklands (I'm using them because I'm really familiar with them, BTW- I've never played a Sadowsky and only a few Ken Smiths and a handful of Pedullas, and none of the other "high end" or "boutique" instruments) have impeccable finish, fret work, nuts, etc. Just the nut- almost NO mass-market instrument I've played in over 30 years has the nut cut correctly. They're all too high. Why? COST! To cut a nut correctly one needs to spend a lot of time, and it's pretty much a trial-and-error process. Loosen the string, cut the nut to where you think it should be, retune and test, repeat as needed. If you go one pass of the file too far, you have to start all over. So, it's cheaper to leave it a little high. That's what FMIC, Ibanez, Schecter, Peavey, Gibson, et. al. do. The boutique guys take the time to do it right.

Same thing for fret work, soldering etc. There was a thread here earlier this week about the rubbing compound Fender leaves in the control cavaties on their instruments. That stuff is abrasive and often corrosive. It wrecks pots and solder joints. But it takes time to remove it well and it's hidden so FMIC (among others) leaves it in there. Lakland doesn't. And how well shielded is that $900 mass-market Jazz bass clone compared to a Joe Osborne?

Most boutique guys also spend a lot of time making things LOOK great. Lakland inspects the body blanks and determines what finish will look best on each body. FMIC et. al. just spray them as they come down the line- no matter what the grain is, if it's sunburst day, they're all sprayed 'bursts.

The other factor is that after a certain point, each increment of "quality" costs more to build than before. Going from say $500 to $1000 is one jump. But to get that same level of jump beyond $1K, it might take another $1000 instead of the $500. That's because it becomes more labor intensive so you loose the advantages of mass production.

Lots of things to consider here- and I have stuff ranging in price from my MIJ Sting to my US Lakland Deluxe 494. They're equally "good" for my needs, but the things that make them work for me cost more on the one than the other.

jte
 
#16
WRXbase said:
What brought this to my attention, was my extensive search for a custom "boutique" bass. Dave Pushic will most likely be getting $1000 + of my return. I was mainly wondering if I had somehow missed something in my search. Seems that I didn't. Thanks for your responses.
Click to expand...

Just because something is less expensive doesn't mean that you're getting a better deal. I know DP is cheaper than everyone else on the market, but you get what you pay for.

That being said, you don't need to break the bank to get greatness. Sure, Conklin, Fodera, and Alembic are top dogs, but that doesn't mean a sub $3k CB or Stambaugh won't be amazing or suffer from quality compared to the big dogs.
 
#17
The long and short answer is that it all goes into what brings it from a production line into an art.

I can commonly make a $80 craigslist out play a common $4000 bass... it takes me about 10 hours with jewlers files, sand paper, testing a few types of strings, opening it up and cleaning up some electronics etc.

The electronics are commonly a place that cost a bit more.

Advice.. look toward used.. pick out something that's "almost there" and then bring it to a high end Luthier.. You may pay $750 for the bass.. another $250 on labor and strings... chances are you'll meet the objective... it takes a tenured hand to correctly improve an instrument. I botched about 30 guitars trying to figure out what worked and didn't

I've been buying tons and tons of $200-450 basses lately that will compete on a blindfold test with a $4000 bass.
 
#18
RexNFX79 said:
Yeah, like I said, I'm not knocking the high end basses. If that's your thing and you like them then play them and be happy. No one can deny that many musicians use their gear as a status symbol. I'm not trying to insult anyone but everyone knows these people are out there but everyone has had that conversation with musicians that would rather tell you what gear they have than what their musical vision is.
Click to expand...
The personality trait you just described isn't relegated to owners of high end equipment. The assumption that this drives people to spend $3000 is a fairly common misconception.

Mike
 
#19
OP, get the best bass you like that you can afford, and play it alot! Don't worry about basses you cannot afford. The truth is that if you look at the classified section, bassists who own boutique basses sell and trade them just as much as bassists who own cheaper basses. Getting that perfect high end bass does not mean that you will never lust after gear anymore than dating the prettiest woman or man will keep you from lusting after other company.

An ironic thought just occured to me: so many of my favorite bassists who play boutique basses actually played there most memorable lines on slightly modded Fenders. For example, Will Lee got famous as a session man in NYC playing a Fender Precision. All of the basslines that made me love Anthony Jackson between 1971-981 were played on Frankenstein Fenders that worked on himself. Chuck Rainey did all of the cool stuff that we remember on a P-bass with a bridge pickup. True enough all three now play sweet boutiques, but having a run of the mill bass did not keep them from playing great music!:bassist: We all need to remember this when we start GAS-ing.:cool:
 
#20
spade2you said:
Just because something is less expensive doesn't mean that you're getting a better deal. I know DP is cheaper than everyone else on the market, but you get what you pay for.

That being said, you don't need to break the bank to get greatness. Sure, Conklin, Fodera, and Alembic are top dogs, but that doesn't mean a sub $3k CB or Stambaugh won't be amazing or suffer from quality compared to the big dogs.
Click to expand...

you don't need to spend $3k to get an alembic, there are used epics and orions going in the $1500 range. look in the classifieds, i've got my own epic for sale there.
 

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