Disagree. Years and years hadn't gone by, I made my concerns known very soon after buying the bass, and at different points afterwards. Their response was always the same.
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Recent experience with Zon Guitars (do your research before buying)
- Thread starter TFunkadelic
- Start date
Disagree. Years and years hadn't gone by, I made my concerns known very soon after buying the bass, and at different points afterwards. Their response was always the same.
When I got my bass these problems with Zon hadn't gotten so prevalent. I probably wouldn't have bought it new today, knowing what I know now.
Oh for sure, that wasn't directed at you at all. Sorry if it came across that way!
For those who asked for pics, here are a few during and after repair. There is still a line visible in the finish (this is basically how it looked before the crack completely opened up). Some day when I'm bored I might get around to refinishing the neck to cover up the line, but as I mentioned before I have no intention to ever sell this bass so that's a low priority for me as long as it's stable.
Looks like repair came out pretty good. Because of the location of the crack, Zon should've immediately told you to send it back to them. Like here's a shipping label, get to the nearest shipping location ASAP.
@TFunkadelic could you show a pic of the repair at the heel of the neck? In your original pic the fingerboard was separated at the end of the neck in the upper register. In the repaired pic the instrument cord is actually covering the repaired area.
IMO, I think it was likely pretty obvious this was not a finish flaw when the problem first started. I've seen this before in both graphite neck instruments and wood neck instruments. A "finish flaw" along the line of a lamination of a fingerboard and neck is something that should be looked at in person. It's possible that minor movement between two different materials can cause something similar and not be an issue. Typically in a wood neck instrument, wood glue is used for the laminations. Wood glue has a bit of give to it that allows wood to expand or contract a little and not be an issue. On graphite necks, epoxy is used which typically has no give or flex. If materials move too much it's more likely to cause a delamination which looks to be the case here.
IMO, I think it was likely pretty obvious this was not a finish flaw when the problem first started. I've seen this before in both graphite neck instruments and wood neck instruments. A "finish flaw" along the line of a lamination of a fingerboard and neck is something that should be looked at in person. It's possible that minor movement between two different materials can cause something similar and not be an issue. Typically in a wood neck instrument, wood glue is used for the laminations. Wood glue has a bit of give to it that allows wood to expand or contract a little and not be an issue. On graphite necks, epoxy is used which typically has no give or flex. If materials move too much it's more likely to cause a delamination which looks to be the case here.
You can't really see anymore of the damage without taking the neck off the guitar. When it separated I first noticed it because there was a gap at the very bottom of the fingerboard and it was raised above the body of the bass. Now that its back together that portion of the neck is covered by the body. But here is a closer pic of the heel when I had it off the bass.
Attachments
That's what bugs me most about the entire thing. I'd have gladly paid to have it fixed if when I first contacted Zon with my concern about the neck they said "that could be a problem later, you should send it back so we can check it out (while it's under warranty)."
They didn't do that. They repeatedly told me from the very beginning (and over several years as I showed them pictures of the problem worsening) that it was no reason for concern and that I would have to pay them to fix a cosmetic issue, not a structural one. Only after the bass became unplayable did they ask to see it in person, with the added suggestion that I would now have to pay to fix the real problem, too.
I don't live near the Zon shop so I couldn't just drive in with it and talk to Joe in person.
I mean there's a big thread about these guys being very difficult to deal with, I don't know why anyone is questioning OP.
The devil always needs an advocate
Not only does not seem worth an argument but it is all totally off subject for this thread
Good luck with your repair job. I hope it holds and you don't get any other stability issues down the road. At least your Zon looks great and even though the company is full of knuckleheads you're really trying to take the high road here and it just shows that you're the bigger man here. I hope that bass can give you many more years of great playing.
Last night I dreamt I brought my Ken Smith to a music store to test an amp or something. As I was leaving I thought “Gee, my case feels really light.” I realized I’d left the bass somewhere but when I looked around it was nowhere to be seen!
I know, totally off topic but I just had to get it off my chest.
I get that hindsight being 20/20 you are under the impression that they should have "known" what was potentially going on with that neck, but that's not entirely realistic or reasonable from the perspective of a builder. I've been building for years and have built many guitars and basses. This neck separation issue has literally never happened to one of my builds without significant accompanying impact damage. It's not a commonly occurring issue as there's little mechanical cycling that goes on with an instrument that will lead to this kind of delamination of the glue joint.
If someone contacted me about a finish line or potential delam down near the heel of the instrument, I would also presume it was much more likely to be a finish flaw (possibly finish not adhering to a razor-thin line of glue in the joint) than a structural issue. And no offense to you, but in my experience, consumers and players of musical instruments exhibit a lot of magical thinking around their instruments compared to builders and techs, and so I often have to be cautious when working with people's assumptions about what has happened to the instrument or the issues they are having with it. I mean that with total respect to you as a consumer/player - it's my job as a builder to figure out what a customer wants and deliver it, and sometimes also to address a misunderstanding with a customer as well, but I don't consider it the customer's problem or the customer as the one to blame.
I'm not defending their communication pattern or how they approached fixing the issue, as I'm small and meaningless enough to have taken it back, repaired it on my own dime and maybe split the difference with you on shipping only. I'm only pointing out that it appears that some of the disappointment on your part is stemming from your assumption that they 'should have known' and should have given you opportunity to address it with them earlier before this occurred. In my own case, I bet I would have done that. But at the same time, I would not have assumed a structural issue and I probably would have approached it like any finish repair and only addressed that issue. At some point down the line the fingerboard may still have separated for reasons unbeknownst to me at the time. Just some food for thought.
That's a lot of words to say "I wouldn't have handled it the way they did either but you should try to be understanding."I get that hindsight being 20/20 you are under the impression that they should have "known" what was potentially going on with that neck, but that's not entirely realistic or reasonable from the perspective of a builder. I've been building for years and have built many guitars and basses. This neck separation issue has literally never happened to one of my builds without significant accompanying impact damage. It's not a commonly occurring issue as there's little mechanical cycling that goes on with an instrument that will lead to this kind of delamination of the glue joint.
If someone contacted me about a finish line or potential delam down near the heel of the instrument, I would also presume it was much more likely to be a finish flaw (possibly finish not adhering to a razor-thin line of glue in the joint) than a structural issue. And no offense to you, but in my experience, consumers and players of musical instruments exhibit a lot of magical thinking around their instruments compared to builders and techs, and so I often have to be cautious when working with people's assumptions about what has happened to the instrument or the issues they are having with it. I mean that with total respect to you as a consumer/player - it's my job as a builder to figure out what a customer wants and deliver it, and sometimes also to address a misunderstanding with a customer as well, but I don't consider it the customer's problem or the customer as the one to blame.
I'm not defending their communication pattern or how they approached fixing the issue, as I'm small and meaningless enough to have taken it back, repaired it on my own dime and maybe split the difference with you on shipping only. I'm only pointing out that it appears that some of the disappointment on your part is stemming from your assumption that they 'should have known' and should have given you opportunity to address it with them earlier before this occurred. In my own case, I bet I would have done that. But at the same time, I would not have assumed a structural issue and I probably would have approached it like any finish repair and only addressed that issue. At some point down the line the fingerboard may still have separated for reasons unbeknownst to me at the time. Just some food for thought.
I'll say this again (it was detailed in the other thread); I had communications and pictures over the course of years documenting the progression of the defect. There were so many opportunities for Zon to say, "hmm, this crack is spreading, deepening, and has now gone entirely through the finish. Maybe it's a more serious problem."
They never did that. This thread is 30 pages of people having similar issues (and worse) dealing with this company and you act like we should all reserve judgment in the face of piles of evidence and personal experience....gimme a break man
- Dec 21, 2007
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I have a similar dream of getting rid if my Shekter Fan Fretted 5 studio. I waited 4 months for to have the body burst open near the badly bored input socket. Bad use of grain and badly seasoned timber confirmed by a workmate with outrageous qualifications in the subject. Sheckter and the vendor said it had been dropped? While in its case unused for 3 months. Right! Bottom line is dont buy a Sheckter from Indonesia or you may suffer the same fate and lack of back up.Last night I dreamt I brought my Ken Smith to a music store to test an amp or something. As I was leaving I thought “Gee, my case feels really light.” I realized I’d left the bass somewhere but when I looked around it was nowhere to be seen!
I know, totally off topic but I just had to get it off my chest.
Bar stewards! God bless them!
As I said elsewhere if you can't do the job pick up a broom. Carbon fibre race car components dont generally fall apart because they know what they are doing. Everyone else either teaches or makes guitars it seems lolThat's a lot of words to say "I wouldn't have handled it the way they did either but you should try to be understanding."
I'll say this again (it was detailed in the other thread); I had communications and pictures over the course of years documenting the progression of the defect. There were so many opportunities for Zon to say, "hmm, this crack is spreading, deepening, and has now gone entirely through the finish. Maybe it's a more serious problem."
They never did that. This thread is 30 pages of people having similar issues (and worse) dealing with this company and you act like we should all reserve judgment in the face of piles of evidence and personal experience....gimme a break man
This was clearly a case of a builder not doing the job correctly and then not having the professionalism to adequately evaluated it (and take care of his customer). I personally believe that you handled it with a great deal of patience and class. Most of us probably would have just exploded (especially after the problem worsened over time). I suspect that I would have just blown the bass out and let someone else handle repairing it (because I just don't like dealing with situations like that).
So glad to hear the you got the major part of the repair done and the bass is playable. But, shame on Zon for the way that they handled it!
So glad to hear the you got the major part of the repair done and the bass is playable. But, shame on Zon for the way that they handled it!
