Rechargeable Li-ion 9v causing signal interference

[SC Bassboy]

Good day, everyone. I just wanted to share my experience with rechargeable lithium 9v batteries. I recently bought some Quzmo batteries off Amazon because I was thinking that rechargeable ones would be a life saver for me (I own too many active basses). Well, I charged them up and popped one in a bass and then spent some time trying to figure out why the bass sounded like Hell. The signal was hotter than normal and had an annoying high pitched hiss that would not go away. I unplugged the cable from the bass and the noise disappeared. At that point I started getting suspicious of the battery. I took out the rechargeable 9v and swapped it with a normal Duracell. The noise went away and everything sounded proper again. So... be careful with these rechargeable Li-ioN batteries. Obviously, not all of them are made to the same quality.

 

[fig]

Good day, everyone. I just wanted to share my experience with rechargeable lithium 9v batteries. I recently bought some Quzmo batteries off Amazon because I was thinking that rechargeable ones would be a life saver for me (I own too many active basses). Well, I charged them up and popped one in a bass and then spent some time trying to figure out why the bass sounded like Hell. The signal was hotter than normal and had an annoying high pitched hiss that would not go away. I unplugged the cable from the bass and the noise disappeared. At that point I started getting suspicious of the battery. I took out the rechargeable 9v and swapped it with a normal Duracell. The noise went away and everything sounded proper again. So... be careful with these rechargeable Li-ioN batteries. Obviously, not all of them are made to the same quality.

Unfortunately, that's a known issue with rechargeables in instrument/audio equipment. I don't know if all rechargeables will introduce noise into the signal of active basses, but there are regular reports of noise generated by rechargeables mentioned in the forum and around the web.

The rechargeable 9v's have a small circuit board in 'em to monitor voltage (protect from overcharging), current (overcurrent protection), and short-circuit protection ("Protect from short-circuits.", says Captain Obvious LOL). Maybe some other protections, like overheating, etc.

The design, and how the circuit performs its duty, is the evil culprit.

Hopefully some folk passing thru can suggest some rechargeable 9v's that don't introduce noise. Just as a general rule, rechargeable 9v's may best be used by any non-audio stuff. That's my philosophy and I'm sticking to it LOL.

 

[SC Bassboy]

Unfortunately, that's a known issue with rechargeables in instrument/audio equipment. I don't know if all rechargeables will introduce noise into the signal of active basses, but there are regular reports of noise generated by rechargeables mentioned in the forum and around the web.

The rechargeable 9v's have a small circuit board in 'em to monitor voltage (protect from overcharging), current (overcurrent protection), and short-circuit protection ("Protect from short-circuits.", says Captain Obvious LOL). Maybe some other protections, like overheating, etc.

The design, and how the circuit performs its duty, is the evil culprit.

Hopefully some folk passing thru can suggest some rechargeable 9v's that don't introduce noise. Just as a general rule, rechargeable 9v's may best be used by any non-audio stuff. That's my philosophy and I'm sticking to it LOL.

Point taken. The ones I purchased have been relegated to the smoke alarms.

 

[BGroovy]

I try every few years (most recently with Pale Blue) and they all cause noise in my active basses. Love them for everything else, but the good old fashioned energizers are staying in the basses for the foreseeable future.

 

[Wasnex]

Good day, everyone. I just wanted to share my experience with rechargeable lithium 9v batteries. I recently bought some Quzmo batteries off Amazon because I was thinking that rechargeable ones would be a life saver for me (I own too many active basses). Well, I charged them up and popped one in a bass and then spent some time trying to figure out why the bass sounded like Hell. The signal was hotter than normal and had an annoying high pitched hiss that would not go away. I unplugged the cable from the bass and the noise disappeared. At that point I started getting suspicious of the battery. I took out the rechargeable 9v and swapped it with a normal Duracell. The noise went away and everything sounded proper again. So... be careful with these rechargeable Li-ioN batteries. Obviously, not all of them are made to the same quality.

AFAIK IMHO rechargeable batteries are usually not ideal for use in a bass or fire alarm, where current draw is rather small. Better to use rechargeables in gear that pulls a lot of current and goes through batteries quickly. For example battery powered amps or wireless mics, instrument packs, or IEM receivers.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Hmm...I guess it's a Li-ioN thing then? I use rechargable NiMH AA's in my Zoom pedals and have zero issues. I'm no chemist or EE so I'm not sure why there aren't more 9Vs that are NiMH, but I can imagine they'd work fine.

 

[Dana R Gregory]

I use RayoVac rechargable batteries in my wireless mouse and my TV remotes. I also use them in my Vox headphone amp and never had a problem with noise. As far as an active bass is concerned, because they tend to last a long time, I would use Energizers or Duracell.

 

[winegamd]

Many of the rechargeable 9v also don't actually output 9v, more like 7.2-8v. This alone could increase noise due to the loss of headroom. If they are a smart battery, the cheap circuits inside could almost certainly add extra noise. With the exception of the disposable Energizer Lithium battery, there isn't anything that matches or outperforms an alkaline 9v in the same form factor.

 

[BassicJazzy]

The issue is in the conversion of voltage from the norm for Li-on to the 9v output. That circuit generates EMF. It is not an issue of the battery being rechargeable, or result of an over voltage. This is not an issue with Ni-Cad or Alkaline batteries.

9v batteries are just 3x3v batteries, in alkaline or Ni-cad format.

Li-ons charge to normal voltage of 3.7 - 3.8v. When you put three together to make a 9v you have excess voltage, which needs to be reduced to 9v.

It doesn't matter what brand you choose. And prior post is correct, no reason to use these anyway. They are designed for high draw circuits, and maintain their voltage until the battery is nearly depleted, unlike alkaline or Ni-cads. The circuit designed to prevent overcharging or depletion is there to protect the battery, which dies if depleted, never to work again.

I use Li-ons with portable lasers, which draw a lot of power. Have lots and lots of experience with them.

 

[Malak the Mad]

I use RayoVac rechargable batteries in my wireless mouse and my TV remotes. I also use them in my Vox headphone amp and never had a problem with noise. As far as an active bass is concerned, because they tend to last a long time, I would use Energizers or Duracell.

From what I've read, Ray-O-Vac alkaline batteries are just as effective as the bigger name brands, but at a notably lower cost. That being said, if several, frequent, active bass users were to chime in to say otherwise, I'd gladly adjust my thinking.

 

[Iristone]

It's also been said that some un-regulated fuzzzboxes sound the best with old-fashioned carbon batteries. Luckily they tend to be low current draw, so even the carbon batteries can be used for a long time.

 

[96tbird]

Hmm...I guess it's a Li-ioN thing then? I use rechargable NiMH AA's in my Zoom pedals and have zero issues. I'm no chemist or EE so I'm not sure why there aren't more 9Vs that are NiMH, but I can imagine they'd work fine.

Correct. Li ion 9v have a circuit board to control the two cells inside to keep them in balance and keep the magic smoke inside. But fully charged they are only 8.4 volts. So it could be the board, it could be the low voltage making noise. IMO IME 9v Li-ion aren’t good for much at all beyond a light or clock.

Li-poly are cool though. I have a two pedal mini board I run with a 11 volt Li-poly 2000mAh pack and it lasts months and months. No noise issues with that but it has no charge board on it, the pricey charger does the balancing work. Not useful inside an active bass though, because of cell size and shape. Even small mAh 11v packs are usually larger than a 9v battery.

 

[BassicJazzy]

From what I've read, Ray-O-Vac alkaline batteries are just as effective as the bigger name brands, but at a notably lower cost. That being said, if several, frequent, active bass users were to chime in to say otherwise, I'd gladly adjust my thinking.

Yes, brand doesn't matter, as long as they fit, and you change them out every year or so. Seems there isn't a rigid standard on the size, and some have complained that certain brands didn't fit, or make proper contact in their battery boxes. Some of the brands now claim to be leakproof for 5 years, like Energizers, and have a plastic coating. I left Duracel and Energizer 9vs in my basses in storage, like an idiot, for 25 years. The Duracel leaked, made a mess, but the Energizer did not, so now I only buy Energizers.

 

[JazznFunk]

This is why only high quality non-rechargeable alkaline batteries should be used. There are a lot of issues with rechargeable batteries - fluctuating power output, noise, etc. I wouldn't even use them in smoke alarms, as fluctuating voltages in those can cause nuisance false alarms.

 

[JazznFunk]

From what I've read, Ray-O-Vac alkaline batteries are just as effective as the bigger name brands, but at a notably lower cost. That being said, if several, frequent, active bass users were to chime in to say otherwise, I'd gladly adjust my thinking.

They are 'just as effective' in that they provide power. But I don't think the quality of manufacturing, or longevity is the same. I noticed that Ray-O-Vacs generally don't last as long as Energizer or Duracell in non-bass-specific applications (flashlights, effects pedals, etc). I've also had Ray-O-Vac leak or corrode more frequently than the other 2. When it comes to the minuscule amount of cost difference between battery brands, I'm going to go with Duracell or Energizer.

 

[SoonerBill]

They are 'just as effective' in that they provide power. But I don't think the quality of manufacturing, or longevity is the same. I noticed that Ray-O-Vacs generally don't last as long as Energizer or Duracell in non-bass-specific applications (flashlights, effects pedals, etc). I've also had Ray-O-Vac leak or corrode more frequently than the other 2. When it comes to the minuscule amount of cost difference between battery brands, I'm going to go with Duracell or Energizer.

This is another of those things where people have very different experiences. I've had two LED flashlights, an LED alarm clock and a blood pressure monitor all ruined in the past year by Energizer AAAs leaking and becoming one with the battery compartments.

 

[KohanMike]

I found that the ones that recharge in a charge box work fine, the ones that recharge with a USB-C port in the battery have the interference problem.

 

[JazznFunk]

This is another of those things where people have very different experiences. I've had two LED flashlights, an LED alarm clock and a blood pressure monitor all ruined in the past year by Energizer AAAs leaking and becoming one with the battery compartments.

Storage before and after use can affect it for sure. While I was speaking to 9Vs specifically per the thread, I curiously have found that AA and AAAs are far more prone to leaking than 9Vs, no matter the brand. Flashlights, blood pressure cuffs, thermometers, hygrometers.... even small tuners in my gig bag with a single AAA or AA have had leak issues after long-term placement in the battery compartment.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

VERY interesting, thank you.

 

[96tbird]

Storage before and after use can affect it for sure. While I was speaking to 9Vs specifically per the thread, I curiously have found that AA and AAAs are far more prone to leaking than 9Vs, no matter the brand. Flashlights, blood pressure cuffs, thermometers, hygrometers.... even small tuners in my gig bag with a single AAA or AA have had leak issues after long-term placement in the battery compartment.

That is because inside a regular 9v are 6 small button cells. Not buttons but built like them. Some have rectangular pancake cells built Like watch batteries. They seldom leak. I kid you not, break one open.