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Recording at Home

B

bobbajobb

Jan 25, 2022
11
12
#1
Hello fellow Low End Chiefs

I'm due to record bass for an album with one of my bands in the coming weeks/months, and I've only had experience recording live as a group before. This newer band tracks drums first then guitars etc after.

We're opting to record at guitars home to save some £ and preserve studio time for drums - the group did that for their last EP and saw success with it.

The group & engineer is talking about sending a clean signal so they have the most flexibility when it comes to mixing etc, which I can understand.

However, a big part of my tone is my gear - I have a Darkglass B7K which I love and also a really nice GK Fusion S amp.

The darkglass has a parallel out, so that's sorted. I can record both dirty and clean and provide both for the engineer so he can preserve my low-end and still be able to mix in the bite/dirt from the B7K.

But how do I still preserve my amp tone? Should I be bothering to try and keep it or is it better to just use it for gigs/live?

I can only feed one output from my darkglass into my amp - should I record the dirt or the clean?

Any advice or input really welcome - I don't want to sound like a generic plugin when I've put so much thought and care into my setup - but also don't want to impede the recording process.

Thank you!
 
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#5
bobbajobb said:
Hello fellow Low End Chiefs

I'm due to record bass for an album with one of my bands in the coming weeks/months, and I've only had experience recording live as a group before. This newer band tracks drums first then guitars etc after.

We're opting to record at guitars home to save some £ and preserve studio time for drums - the group did that for their last EP and saw success with it.

The group & engineer is talking about sending a clean signal so they have the most flexibility when it comes to mixing etc, which I can understand.

However, a big part of my tone is my gear - I have a Darkglass B7K which I love and also a really nice GK Fusion S amp.

The darkglass has a parallel out, so that's sorted. I can record both dirty and clean and provide both for the engineer so he can preserve my low-end and still be able to mix in the bite/dirt from the B7K.

But how do I still preserve my amp tone? Should I be bothering to try and keep it or is it better to just use it for gigs/live?

I can only feed one output from my darkglass into my amp - should I record the dirt or the clean?

Any advice or input really welcome - I don't want to sound like a generic plugin when I've put so much thought and care into my setup - but also don't want to impede the recording process.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I hate the modern concept "just give clean sound" they will fix it in the mix. All we do in the studio anymore is push off decisions to the end that if made in real time, would shape the entire process. The engineer is supposed to be capturing your sound, not creating it. Its why modern records all sound largely the same. Its a sign that the engineer is either lacking in skill, spineless or both. Know what you want, commit to it and record that. If you can't do that, you are not ready to record.

"Mr Van Halen, we are just going to record a DI. We will use Amplitube to sculpt your sound to fit in the mix.."
"Don't worry Mr Bonham, we will be sample replacing your entire kit."
"Mr Clark, we need you to record with a P bass, it just fits in a mix better.. "

Can you imagine? But somehow its the preferred method?

However, unless you are prepared to declare war on the band that probably is your best option. Most players these days are so brainwashed and indoctrinated that this is the only way, you won't win that argument
 
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#6
TheArchitect said:
I hate the modern concept "just give clean sound" they will fix it in the mix. All we do in the studio anymore is push off decisions to the end that if made in real time, would shape the entire process. The engineer is supposed to be capturing your sound, not creating it. Its why modern records all sound largely the same. Its a sign that the engineer is either lacking in skill, spineless or both. Know what you want, commit to it and record that. If you can't do that, you are not ready to record.

"Mr Van Halen, we are just going to record a DI. We will use Amplitube to sculpt your sound to fit in the mix.."
"Don't worry Mr Bonham, we will be sample replacing your entire kit."
"Mr Clark, we need you to record with a P bass, it just fits in a mix better.. "

Can you imagine? But somehow its the preferred method?

However, unless you are prepared to declare war on the band that probably is your best option. Most players these days are so brainwashed and indoctrinated that this is the only way, you won't win that argument
Click to expand...

In this case, I assume the "just give a clean sound" is due to the nature of the request. Engineer cannot capture your sound if you are not going to come into the studio and let them capture it.
 
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#7
TheArchitect said:
I hate the modern concept "just give clean sound" they will fix it in the mix. All we do in the studio anymore is push off decisions to the end that if made in real time, would shape the entire process. The engineer is supposed to be capturing your sound, not creating it. Its why modern records all sound largely the same. Its a sign that the engineer is either lacking in skill, spineless or both. Know what you want, commit to it and record that. If you can't do that, you are not ready to record.

"Mr Van Halen, we are just going to record a DI. We will use Amplitube to sculpt your sound to fit in the mix.."
"Don't worry Mr Bonham, we will be sample replacing your entire kit."
"Mr Clark, we need you to record with a P bass, it just fits in a mix better.. "

Can you imagine? But somehow its the preferred method?

However, unless you are prepared to declare war on the band that probably is your best option. Most players these days are so brainwashed and indoctrinated that this is the only way, you won't win that argument
Click to expand...
I mean, if you have major labels funding your recording then the world's your oyster; if you're recording guitars at home to save money, send a stem of a DI to the engineer.
 
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#9
bobbajobb said:
But how do I still preserve my amp tone?
Click to expand...
You don’t. Tones that sound great live may or may not work in a recording context.

Send your engineer both a clean DI and your Darkglass and explain, in as much detail as possible, exactly what you’re hoping for. If they’re worth their salt they’ll work with you to get you there.
 
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#10
bobbajobb said:
Hello fellow Low End Chiefs

I'm due to record bass for an album with one of my bands in the coming weeks/months, and I've only had experience recording live as a group before. This newer band tracks drums first then guitars etc after.

We're opting to record at guitars home to save some £ and preserve studio time for drums - the group did that for their last EP and saw success with it.

The group & engineer is talking about sending a clean signal so they have the most flexibility when it comes to mixing etc, which I can understand.

However, a big part of my tone is my gear - I have a Darkglass B7K which I love and also a really nice GK Fusion S amp.

The darkglass has a parallel out, so that's sorted. I can record both dirty and clean and provide both for the engineer so he can preserve my low-end and still be able to mix in the bite/dirt from the B7K.

But how do I still preserve my amp tone? Should I be bothering to try and keep it or is it better to just use it for gigs/live?

I can only feed one output from my darkglass into my amp - should I record the dirt or the clean?

Any advice or input really welcome - I don't want to sound like a generic plugin when I've put so much thought and care into my setup - but also don't want to impede the recording process.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I would have to write a book to lay all this out for you, so I’m just going to try to make some common sense suggestions based of a fair amount of recording work. Most engineers would rather work with your signal directly out of your bass, then add the effects after the fact. The reason is a good live sound does not necessarily translate when recorded or fitting in the mix of the end product. This can become an exponential problem with each additional track of other instruments.

Keep in mind, the end product is mixed for playback on technology like cell phones to HiFi systems to the radio and in that process, your tone as well as the level in the mix is likely going to be altered. So my advice here is have patience with the process. Feel free to share your thoughts on how you like your tone to sound. If you aren’t paying for recording time and the band mates don’t mind, experiment all you want. Just keep in mind that grace is of a limited quantity and over use can ruin relationships.

For me, the creative process is the best part of recording. You have a blank canvass, but unlike paint with today’s technology, just about anything can be solved at the control panel. So relax, and rock on. I hope you find this useful.

If you are not paying for recording time, you can play around all you want
 
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#11
Depending how your bass sits in the mix and the overall arrangement of the songs, there may not be eq real estate to house your sculpted tone.

I would trust your band mates. The beauty of digital home recording is you are not limited by tracks, so many things can be attempted and reversed. Hired engineers can sometimes shoot for a very uniform uncreative approach simply for ease of use.

Most importantly, how will it sound on airpods? Haha
 
#12
Might as well send the dirty/amp tones in addition to the clean DI. They may not end up getting used, but the engineer might take a cue from them as far as creating something along the lines of what you were going for.

I fully understand the complaint of "no one wants to commit anymore", but in this case, where you're all tracking individually, that doesn't come into play. This is the reality of modern recording - budgets often don't exist to do things the old fashioned way.
 
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#13
Any good DI can split to go simultaneously into the board to an amp, so unless there's some other constraint, you should be able to track both clean and amped signal at the same time. Worth discussing with the engineer.

There are re-amp boxes that can take your clean recorded signal and send it through your rig to capture the amped sound. Worth a discussion.

One big advantage to tracking clean and re-amping, is that it's much easier to edit a clean signal than a heavily affected signal (assuming there's a need to do any edits). Once the track is in great shape, then just re-amp away. That also gives you potential options as far as amp rigs go. Don't like one? Try another. It's just a matter of available time/money.

Edited to add: I re-amp. I'm in a situation where tracking through an amp is a chore without a lot of prep to keep the sound levels reasonable. I can track all day long without disturbing the family, and then when I've got my keeper track, I'll re-amp at a convenient time.
 
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#14
Depends on your band, your crew and your intent.
In other words, I'm reading these posts and "difference between engineer and producer" is coming to mind.

If you are the bassist and your role is to provide bass music to some group so they can determine the sound and "feel" of the final product, send a clean signal.
If you are the bassist and contributing member to the collective creativity of the group and your sound is a key component of the band's whole, then mic your amp and send that to the engineer.

Not stirring the pot. Sometimes the down-tape crew knows exactly what you are looking for and sometimes they know what they are looking for. A producer's contribution is the ability to make those decisions.

Seriously not trying to trick you into inventing a problem.

But is the guitarist sending a clean DI signal?
If your sound comes from external processing (effects...) send a clean signal. If your sound comes from your amp, mic it.
 
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#15
Send one clean signal and one with whatever else you want in it... if they don't like the extra track they don't have to use it. If effects are a key part of your tone or are necessary to making the parts feel and sound right when you play them, I would still use them on at least the non-clean signal, and in some circumstances I would use them on both. For example, if I am playing a song that starts with a fuzz bass intro I wouldn't send the engineer just one purely clean signal of me playing that part with no fuzz.
 
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#16
One of my prior bands recorded and mixed our own album - and I was pretty pleased with the results:
(I should hope so, since I was the guy doing the recording and mixing)



I knew EXACTLY what I wanted my bass to sound like - but I found that getting the tone on the recording to sound like how my amp sounded when playing live required me to change almost everything.

The band was a 7-piece (vocals, 2 guitars, trumpet, keys, drummer, and myself) which made for a busy/crowded mix.
#1 - I tried to mic my cab, and none of the mics were really able to capture the physical sensation of being in the room with my cabinet barking away
#2 - the Pre-EQ DI feed was too middy and "poky" sounding
#3 - the Post-EQ signal out of my DI didn't sound accurate either; I had to re-adjust my EQ while listening through the studio monitors until it sounded right to me

My advice - find a set of headphones you like and trust, then listen to a lot of your favorite records on them so that your ears get "calibrated".

Once you're used to how the bass on your favorite albums sound on those headphones, take a DI out from the Darkglass, and a Post-EQ DI out from your GK, then listen to each through your headphones and readjust them until they fit the tone you need for the mix.

Then record both of those signals and send them to the engineer.
 
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#18
lm183902 said:
Might as well send the dirty/amp tones in addition to the clean DI. They may not end up getting used, but the engineer might take a cue from them as far as creating something along the lines of what you were going for.

I fully understand the complaint of "no one wants to commit anymore", but in this case, where you're all tracking individually, that doesn't come into play. This is the reality of modern recording - budgets often don't exist to do things the old fashioned way.
Click to expand...
It does not cost anything to commit to a sound.
 
#19
TheArchitect said:
It does not cost anything to commit to a sound.
Click to expand...

Completely true. But when you're tracking by yourself with no knowledge of what everyone else is going to do, things can get hairy real quick. If you always use a sub-heavy bass tone, but the engineer is planning on the kick dominating the low end, goodbye to your bass tone (and any separation in the low end). Same thing with bass vs. guitars - if you love a low-mid heavy sound, but the guitars need to push around 200Hz, someone has to lose the battle.

With that said, I used to run a studio and love nothing more than sculpting a sound during tracking. So much easier and more enjoyable to make quick, informed decisions while listening to a band play.
 
#20
Thank you everyone for your input.

I think I am leaning towards sending:
  • Direct out from my Darkglass pedal
  • Parallel out from pedal > into amp > post EQ-DI
I'm less experienced in what will work for the eventual mix, so I think I'll aim to record these both at less-than-extreme settings to allow for extra flexibility on the other end. Perhaps that will change as we get to actually recording and I start to hear it all come together, but for now that seems like a solid plan - as many of you have said we have ample time if we're doing it at home.

Thank you all :)
 
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