Recording Bass (Reverb) DI in

[DECOSTAJ]

I'm wondering why some say to not use reverb on Bass.

Don't cab sims use room IR which have a reverb?
or say when mixing front to back, wouldn't you use reverb to push the bass behind the vocals.

I need some guidance on this. If you use reverb, what type etc.

I can't believe there's no "Recording Bass" sub forum so I'm unsure where to post this

 

[NKBassman]

Sounds like you're talking about recording and mixing, and not live performance.
If you want to add reverb to the bass, absolutely go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. But my advice would be to record the bass dry and add the reverb later during mixing.

 

[mambo4]

"Recording Bass" sub forum so I'm unsure where to post this

Recording Gear and Equipment [BG]

 

[scott sinner]

First, it can be helpful to think of reverb in primarily two ways

• realistically (what you speak to above) or
• creatively

For the realistic use of reverb, i.e. simulating the room you are recording in (or imagining thus) you are usually talking about very small size of reverb. Consider for example that huge concert halls may have just 1 or 2 seconds of decay. For a studio sounding recording, you are usually looking at less than a half second. And you can simulate depth, as you note, front-back, with just a tiny amount of mix level.

But why would you or wouldn't you bake that in in a DI scenario? If it is a pretty negligible effect for that use, what's the issue?

Pedal reverbs are certainly available now that can compete with plugins, but, if you're trying to simulate a real room, that would mean everyone would ideally need to use the same pedal with slightly different settings to give you the same room, with, e.g. different predelay and eq (and the eqing the reverb only is often not an option on pedals). OH and including using that same pedal on the drums if recording live close-micd drums

Second, I find people don't have a good intuitive sense of how much they will need. If you're trying to get a tiny level just for depth and cohesion, what you need is an amount you can barely hear. BECAUSE, once it is run through several layers of compression and limiting, you will hear that negligible amount, just barely. Said in another way, the amount of 'reverb' you need for cohesion and depth is hardly perceived as reverb, but if I were to A/B the sends I use for this you would instead get a sense of where things are in the room.

All in all, much easier to apply in the box to things going DI and it avoids some problems.

On the other hand, if you are micing an amp, recording in a good room and using the actual room reverb, I may bake the (again very subtle) reverb in. I've also often recorded DI direct and repedal'd reamp'd for that, in the same room as the drums. But I can't emphasize enough that I'm talking about very subtle reverb, i.e. I'm talking, not adding any effect, I'm just talking having a room mic in addition to the close mic that ill probably put at like -20 or 30 dbs in the end.


For the creative use of reverb there are some different considerations. Your pedal settings may be unique and may be effectively interactive with the performance. Still, there are still clear mixing advantages to having a clean DI AND a wet DI to sculpt clean fundamentals on bass. Again, people still sometimes misestimate how much reverb mix you might need because they aren't anticipating the tons of compression used in modern recording. So recording two DIs would usually be my preference, clean and wet.

That's also though assuming a set and perfect performance. If you are doing any improvisation or might make mistakes and might edit a best comp, just monitor with the reverb, and record a clean DI, and once the performance is edited, use a reamp box to repedal.

 

[DECOSTAJ]

Thank you for the response.

I'm going straight into Interface/DAW or using a sansamp, which I think has speaker emulation. its the (RBI)

Yes I'm only looking to help the Bass sit in the mix with short reverb.

So, I researched some online and "they" are saying reverb tends to wash out the Bass or lose focus from the Center. I never noticed this happening as I'm using min reverb to push Bass behind singer.
I know very little about recording Bass and thought I'd ask the experts here on TB. Maybe I wasn't doing it wrong after all ... and "they" may not always be right.

I grabbed a few free plugins,
OrilRiver (Denis Tihanov) and EpicPLATE/Verb (Variety of Sound) seem to work good for what I'm doing.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[DECOSTAJ]

I didn't post in Recording Gear and Equipment because, I thought it more of a Technique,
as in How do I do this or should I do this (adding reverb to Bass)

I always record the dry signal on one track and send it to a second track with compression eq etc. then send some of that to rear bus and reverb bus. (effects track)

I have been sending some off to a separate Reverb bus, as I've learned today (from Scott's post) I maybe shouldn't be compressing the reverb or crushing it on the rear bus or it can get outta hand.

Is there a better tool to push that Bass back in the mix while still retaining punch and drive? delay , tape sim.

 

[Pacman]

I didn't post in Recording Gear and Equipment because, I thought it more of a Technique,
as in How do I do this or should I do this (adding reverb to Bass)

Technique is for the techniques in playing the bass. Moved to Recording Gear etc...

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm wondering why some say to not use reverb on Bass.

Don't cab sims use room IR which have a reverb?
or say when mixing front to back, wouldn't you use reverb to push the bass behind the vocals.

I need some guidance on this. If you use reverb, what type etc.

I can't believe there's no "Recording Bass" sub forum so I'm unsure where to post this

Yes. Cab sims use reverb. I don't really use cab sims. But when I do, I turn the room mics off.

 

[JimmyM]

I used to want it, but then I would complain that the bass sounded washed out and not as solid. I’m not saying not to use it, but it ended up not working for me.

 

[markjazzbassist]

using most types of reverb loses low end, bass is a low end instrument so usually it's just not a good fit. that being said there are creative uses for it and it should be used for that, but inherently it's not a good fit with bass.

 

[And I]

make sure you use reverb as a send and not an insert in your DAW.

i don't use reverb on bass myself, i've never worked on music that called for it aesthetically. to get the bass to sit "behind" the vocal in a mix, reverb is not something i would think to do. might work, but volume, EQ, compression, and looking at how i have treated the vocal that may be making it sound too distant would be my choice for that task.

 

[C Stone]

Don’t typically use reverb on bass tracks
I will use it occasionally when noodling or just a ‘touch’ on a solo on a fretted bass, I think it washes out the sound when reverb is added to the bass track that is in a mix, you can play with it till your hearts content in post so I track bass mostly dry (slight compression).

 

[pbass2]

Live is trickier--things can get pretty mushy. But producing/mixing I will certainly send to the bass to a smidge of reverb for certain styles of music, often to a small room setting along with the drums and some of the other instruments to get a little "live" vibe, simulating bleed. This is especially handy when working with a mixture of live and virtual instruments and trying to make it sound like an actual band, a retro/vintage production value, etc.
In a more extreme case I'll throw some heavy 'verb on bass at times in dub mixes - a very effective technique in that genre.

 

[brianrost]

For bass I find so-called "early reflection" reverbs sound more natural than anything else. It gives a little ambience without making it sound like you're inside a church

Rule of thumb: when you can actually hear the reverb effect on the bass track it's too much.

 

[pbass2]

So, I researched some online and "they" are saying reverb tends to wash out the Bass or lose focus from the Center. I never noticed this happening as I'm using min reverb to push Bass behind singer.

One technique that I find works really well when I do send the bass to a little 'verb in a mix (I never put reverb on the bass channel itself, but I send the bass to a reverb send as I explain in my other reply) is I cut some lows from the reverb send, either with a little high pass before the 'verb, or just roll some off if the plug-in has that capability). Goes a long way in helping keep the bass still feeling focused and tight while still getting a little "room" vibe on it.
EDIT: also makes a big difference if the reverb you're sending the bass to is stereo or mono. Both can work, just depends on what you're trying to simulate. Too much stereo spread on it can really muck things up. But if you're sending several instruments to the same reverb for a "live" room feel, then stereo is more likely what you want. Just gotta play with the EQ of the verb and the stereo width.
In any event I too wouldn't use reverb to "push the bass behind the vocals", I'm not really clear on what you mean by that. I just mix levels accordingly. Are you trying to simulate the bass and vocals being live in a room together, as if they were both being recorded through the same mic and the bass is farther back in the room?

 

[Wood and Wire]

A reverb with a pre-delay function will allow the attack of your notes to be heard clearly, before the onset of reverberation (a few milliseconds will do it).

 

[_Tay_]

I like to use ducking reverb. So clean whilst playing but when the note stops you can hear it. Only subtle amounts but enough to give it some life/bit of character.

 

[sawzalot]

If I use reverb on bass--which is hardly ever unless the bass is stepping out for some kind of featured part--I'll remove the low frequencies from the reverb to keep it from turning into low-end mush.

 

[MDBass]

I didn't post in Recording Gear and Equipment because, I thought it more of a Technique,
as in How do I do this or should I do this (adding reverb to Bass)

I always record the dry signal on one track and send it to a second track with compression eq etc. then send some of that to rear bus and reverb bus. (effects track)

I have been sending some off to a separate Reverb bus, as I've learned today (from Scott's post) I maybe shouldn't be compressing the reverb or crushing it on the rear bus or it can get outta hand.

Is there a better tool to push that Bass back in the mix while still retaining punch and drive? delay , tape sim.

The best tool to push the bass back in the mix is the volume slider

The second best tool is EQ.

Darker sounds appear farther away to our ears than brighter sounds, so either make the bass darker, the vocal brighter, or both.

No reason not to use reverb as an effect if you want, Ian Allison uses printed spring reverb frequently on sessions when the tone calls for it, but use it to add the ambience it’s intended to: not to obscure the bass in the mix.

 

[pbass2]

I didn't post in Recording Gear and Equipment because, I thought it more of a Technique,
as in How do I do this or should I do this (adding reverb to Bass)

I always record the dry signal on one track and send it to a second track with compression eq etc. then send some of that to rear bus and reverb bus. (effects track)

I have been sending some off to a separate Reverb bus, as I've learned today (from Scott's post) I maybe shouldn't be compressing the reverb or crushing it on the rear bus or it can get outta hand.

Is there a better tool to push that Bass back in the mix while still retaining punch and drive? delay , tape sim.

Trying to understand, are you trying to simulate a "live room sound" on the bass and its relationship to the rest of the instruments with the reverb in this case? Otherwise as several replies suggest, just "pushing the bass back" in the mix is really just a level and EQ thing.