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Red Flags For Bass Players Looking for Work
- Thread starter bluewine
- Start date
i know it takes guts,but it's one of those things that if everybody is doing it how is it special....i'm not saying that there are no artists that have something new to say..... but far to many who don't seem to find their way onto record....
These are red flags to any bass player looking for an esablished working band.
And there is nothing wrong with a guy content to play by himself in a basement. However, I don't understnd it and never will.
- Afraid of people / good reason
- Lack of confidence / good reason,I understand this isn't for everyone
- Won't take the risk / ok reason
- Physically or mentally unable / very good reason
- Wife or GF says no / sad, but I understand
- Doesn't like being in clubs or bars (to me this is not a valid reason and doesn't make much sense)
And its always been this way and always will. No difference with acting, modeling, artists, writers etc. Somebody has to push to keep creativity flowing. More will strike out than hit a homer but even if its a small win many are happy with that success than ploding along playing other peoples music.
I have done both cover/original and always admired those who stepped up and tried to do there own thing. Today I am doing it and its way more work than covers...trust me.
"Classic rock/alternative cover band looking for bass. Must be able to practice 2x per week and play 4-6 gigs per month"
Dang! 4-6 gigs per month and still practicing 2x per week! No thanks, I have a life outside of the band.
My all time favorite: "Must be drama free/No drama".
In my experience the people who say this are the biggest troublemakers and/or are hard to get along with.
"Working band needs Bass, Keys, Guitarist, Drummer"
IMHO if you need more than one instrument to complete a lineup then you don't have a band.
Dang! 4-6 gigs per month and still practicing 2x per week! No thanks, I have a life outside of the band.
My all time favorite: "Must be drama free/No drama".
In my experience the people who say this are the biggest troublemakers and/or are hard to get along with.
"Working band needs Bass, Keys, Guitarist, Drummer"
IMHO if you need more than one instrument to complete a lineup then you don't have a band.
jive1
Commercial User
It makes sense if you want to make money doing music. In the 3 major cities I gigged in, $100 per player was decent pay for a bar gig, and anything above that was gravy. Say you live on a meager $1000 a month. You'd have to play 10 bar gigs to make ends barely meet. Considering there are only 8 weekend dates a month, and weekday gigs don't pay as much, you're already facing an uphill battle.
Instead, say I choose to play at a church that will pay me $100 per service, and I do 2 services a Sunday. Which gets me $800 a month, close to making my meager ends meet, and leaves me plenty of open dates to fill with other gigs. BTW, I know plenty of guys that make over $1000 a month at church, and a few who make a living at it, even paying mortgages with it.
Or say I choose to do weddings and corporate events, a very competitive market because the money is good. So, I land one of these gigs, where I get at least $200 a man, if not more. And if I get lucky and book full weekends every month, I'm making $1600, which is well above what I need to get by on my meager existence.
Or, let's say I choose to go into doing theatre, orchestral work, military band, or some type of salaried position. Even if I make a meager $20,000 a year, it's still almost double what you'd make doing a years worth of bar gigs. And, I might get benefits like health insurance and retirement.
Don't get me wrong, I love playing bars and clubs. But, IMO, it's the hardest place to make a living doing music. From an economic or personal preference perspective, I can understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with bars.
It's not a question of having the guts to try, it's the problem of not knowing the difference between a good song and a bad one, compounded by the belief that because they wrote it is inherently BETTER than something by Holland-Dozier-Holland, Lennon-McCartney, Rodney Crowell, etc.
I have had the pleasure to work with two guys who write really good songs. They also know that they write a lot of mediocre ones and they have the balls to put those songs to sleep. Plus neither Bob nor Dave confuse "writing" with "arrangement". And I have some friends who've done successful original acts, escaping the whole six bands on a gig thing by being excellent musicians, writing interesting music that are actual songs (not meandering jams, or obvious cops of other songs), and being smart enough to put their originals into a set list that sounds compelling and fresh. The key is that these people all evolved into the originals area by starting out doing covers, learning a LOT of songs in a lot of genres, developing an ear for GOOD well-written songs, and being ruthless about editing their writing. They never started by saying "I want to do an all original band because covers are the death knell of music". And that, by and large, is the attitude of the folks who post ads for musicians to join and "original" band.
My point is less about whether the material is original or not, than about what gets posted in ads. The people I know around here who do good originals develop bands organically around writing partners and hearing people who are sensitive to the songs. I got to work with the two good songwriters precisely because my approach to covers is to find the essence of it and play music, rather than faithfully regurgitate a specific recording. That carries over to originals. But none of them would have tried to find a bassist by posting an ad, and they'd never imply that the band would be a steady working band, at least not for a long while. And that's the issue in this thread as the title specifically says "... looking for Work". It remains a red flag for me in that situation.
John
jive1
Commercial User
I agree, but someone will probably bite. I'd talk to them and see if they just want to do that in the beginning until they got someone up to speed and taper rehearsals after that. I've known bands operate that way because they had a busy schedule and didn't want to lose momentum by bringing in a new player.
I usually find that with that line there's usually some drama in the band, that's why they write that. Sometimes it's the person writing the ad, sometimes it's the person that left.
Lots of them aren't quite there, but sometimes a busy band is seeking a pool of players to draw from to keep their schedule booked and money flowing without having to deal with the schedules of individual players.
Nowadays with there being more bands available than bookings, those who are booking are usually looking for a quick response. Unless they want your band specifically, they will often go with the first band that says they have the date open. Most pro bands will book that date as long as the bandleader and 1-2 key players have that date open. If you have to call 3 or 4 people and wait a couple days for a response, you could lose the gig.
Yeah, that was the point. I knew Molly Hatchet did a (IMO absolutely terrible, horrible, totally missed the point of the song) cover of "Dreams". But that they didn't even know it was a Greg Allman song was a red flag. The rest of the set list being heavy on Skynyrd was another huge clue to run away...
If they're taking the time to type an advertisement, then professionalism would seem to dictate they'd take the time to have someone proof-read it, or at least hit F7 to spell check. It's not just the communication, it's that this almost always shows a lack of being able to handle the business side of the music biz professionally. You've got an easy tool there to make things right, and fail to use it. If your press package to the bars is as poorly written as your "need musician" ad, then you're not going to have much luck getting started with the bars. It's the failure of marketing that this speaks to*.
Well, it's not so much about whether they have anything to add, it's about them understanding whether what they have to add is worthwhile. I've done some original projects, and enjoyed the music. But it was in the context of working bands (that means we did the originals that fit the context of the covers we were doing, the originals didn't chase people away, and they weren't the ultimate goal of the bands' existence). The songwriters brought the songs into the band that fit the band, and left out the ones they wrote that didn't. It's exactly what Crosby, Stills, & Nash said they did. They only put the songs on the first album that were great songs to be sung in three-part harmony. They left other great songs they'd written off that album and saved them for solo projects.
But I'd never answer an ad seeking to start an original band. I was in bands or helped start bands where one of the people in the band wrote good material that fit. I was in a couple of other bands where the "songwriter" either didn't have enough ideas to actually write a whole good song, or they wanted the band to play songs they'd written that were totally different from what we were playing. And anyone who's trying to start an original band without any songs is not seeking "Bass Players Looking for Work".
John
*And yeah, I know I ended a phrase with a preposition!
I make money with bands without practicing 8 times a month for 4 gigs. I played with one band for 3 years, 4 gigs per month, with maybe 1 rehearsal every other month to tighten up loose ends or work out new songs. Played sub gigs with no rehearsals. It's a cover band, either you know the music or you don't. If you don't then stay home.
Music 'came first' for me when I was in my early 20's with no responsibilities. Live it up. Just make sure that you don't end up 60 years old with no 'responsibilities' (no savings, no family, no home, no education, etc).
Like I said before "That's You" I doubt that is the way allot of us "Weekend Warrior " types feel, at least from the posts I have seen on TB. Most here have work/school and a family that come's first.. giging is second. There are Pro's on here but that is a different story. I highly doubt most Pro's are answering CL ads for bands needing bassplayers. Your "Red Flags" are not everybodys elses, you cant blanket us under what you feel a 'Red Flag" is.
True, in someways. I have a profesional career which requires 50 hrs a week plus travel and I have family too. But, Music still comes first, it's hard to explain.
My thread is about Red Flags for guys that are looking for a lot of consistant work, not weekenders.
This actually brings up another point and something some should be concerned with.
If a guy is looking to to shows every weekend and you show up at an audition and you find that the guys have families with young children and can only gig 1-2 times a month.It might not be the right opportunity.
I'm 58, professional career(however I don't consider it a responsibility), Masters Degree, savings and should be able to retire at 65.
Music is no 1 in my life(end of story). I think some of us have a different bug than the rest. It's all cool though.
7 pages later, is there any real point to this thread?
Guys who are anywhere close to making a living at music already know what ads to answer or not answer - in the unlikely event that they're relying on ads, which is a great way to starve to death.
Guys who are anywhere close to making a living at music already know what ads to answer or not answer - in the unlikely event that they're relying on ads, which is a great way to starve to death.
Well I wouldn't quit my professional career because it's interferring with 'my music'. I also wouldn't spend all my savings recording an album. Certainly not for a cover band.
That would be my criteria for saying 'music is no 1'. I've got the bug too but I know my priorities.
