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Relic Processes - what are they actually doing?

bucephylus

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2002
12,458
18,917
Central Ohio
The point of this thread is to hear what you cats actually know about the various relic procedures that are used. In particular, the procedures used by the Fender Custom Shop would be of interest.

Reason for asking is that I have had very favorable impressions of the sonic qualities of the few instruments I've played as compared to non-relic instruments - louder acoustic response etc. This has made me curious as to why that would be the case. Maybe it was just the individual instrument or could the relic process actually affect the sound? If the procedure is purely mechanical, I don't see how that could be the case.

OTOH, if no one actually knows what is done, and its a big secret; then it is hard to draw any causal conclusions one way or the other.

So, what are they doing?
 
The Road Worn basses are great. Nitro finish instead of the poly goop they pile on the "normal" basses. I love the way they play too. I just don 'get' the beat thing; I would feel sort-a "Duh" if I had to explain that my vintage bass was a 2009!
 
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Just in case it wasn't clear, I do not own one of these and am not a proponent or opponent.

This thread is NOT intended for bashing. I simply am asking what anyone knows about the procedures that are actually used.

So far, the answer is no one knows.
 
Reason for asking is that I have had very favorable impressions of the sonic qualities of the few instruments I've played as compared to non-relic instruments - louder acoustic response etc.

In my mind, beating up an instrument to make it sound better works the same as beating up a cut of meat to tenderize it... same science. Nobody knows why it works, but, by gum it sure does.
 
fender has a time machine with a fast-forward button--there are elves inside the machine, and they play the CS relic instruments for 30 years in 30 seconds...the elves don't last long because it's more efficient not to press rewind between instruments, so Fender has people who scour the globe for fresh elves...
 
I've noticed a certain acoustic hugeness in relic'd instruments lately. The "Road Worn" basses are a great example of this, they're loud as all hell unplugged. I've played nitro covered basses before that didn't resonate like these.

There is some strange force at work here.
 
Could it simply be that the basses you liked came out of the custom shop which uses more carefully selected wood that the standard stock? Did you play any other CS instruments for comparison?

I have no dog in this fight, but I don't see why a different finish would make that much of a difference in the sound of an instrument.
 
I like the look of the relic stuff, but I can't see paying $1,000 for a MIM bass that's been relic'd. Not sure how much the CS charges for relicing a bass, but if it's the $400-$500 premium they charge on the MIM's...I don't know if it's really worth it...unless during the process they're putting some sweet pups and pots in there as well, but I doubt it. All they're doing is sanding, making chips in it (with chains? That'd probably work well), and treating the metal in some sort of acid to simulate the aging process (or speeding it up significantly). They use the Nitro finish instead of the Poly. I say get a Highway one and relic it yourself. You get MIA and you get the enjoyment of causing all the damage!
 
I like the look of the relic stuff, but I can't see paying $1,000 for a MIM bass that's been relic'd. All they're doing is sanding, making chips in it (with chains? That'd probably work well), and treating the metal in some sort of acid to simulate the aging process (or speeding it up significantly). They use the Nitro finish instead of the Poly. I say get a Highway one and relic it yourself. You get MIA and you get the enjoyment of causing all the damage!

I heard from a reputable source (GC employee, HAH!) that the relic process on the "Road Worn" basses and guitars is actually done with a robot. Line up 3 or 4 next to each other, the wear is IDENTICAL.
 
I don't know the details of how Fender does this, but I work in engineering at a company that manufactures things, and I can tell you this: If we had a way of taking a factory second - say a product that has a scratch or ding - and making that worth MORE money, we'd do it.

So... I have to guess that all the 'reliced' instruments are factory seconds that they then "relic" further, slap a label on them and call it cool. Why would they do anything else? It's just makes sense.
 
Having played six road worn basses in recent weeks, I can tell you these things from my experience:

They are super light.
The ones I played all sounded very very good.
The Store selling them did excellent setups on them.
The worn areas on the back of the neck felt good, as did the whole instrument.

Here is my review, quoted from another thread. It may shed some light on the wood.

OK, I played 9 Fender basses today, 5 were Road Worn, 8 were new.

This morning, I learned that a local Kentucky dealer, Bob Willcutt has one RW P-bass at his Richmond, KY, store, and 2 RW P-basses and 2 RW Jazzes at his larger store in Lexington, KY. Besides these 5, I also played 2 60's classics (1 used) and 1 50's classic. Every single bass was MIM.

I started by spending about an hour with the first P-bass at the Willcutt Richmond, KY store while also visiting with some local community musicians and a former RSguitarworks tech who stopped in, as well as hanging with a couple of nice guys who work there. My initial impression was that the first P-bass felt a lot like my '55--a whole lot.

How so? Light and dry feel--complex tone. This was a very light P-bass! Moreover, there is a dry cool feel to the neck that is pretty much the same as a real vintage bass, minus some deeper wear on the lower fingerboard edges where one's fingers wrap around the first, second and third frets. The fretwork was very good, the body finish was pleasing, but I wasn't bowled over by the finish and wear, for better or worse--but I liked it. The exposed wood is mostly grey, as it should be, except where it is actively being worn by contact with skin/clothing.

In a good way, the RW P-bass C neck is much like a vintage C neck in shape, but (to me) not quite IT. The feel is very pleasing, action and frets are very fine. I just wish it were a bit shallower--fingerboard to back--though the nut width seemed about right--forget it, it's just me. I loved the tuners and neck tint. The cigarette burn, well, being a fool, I smoked on gigs for 15 years, yet never got a burn. Wish I hadn't done that smoking, but the burn is kinda cool in a "glad I haven't got cancer yet kind of way" :eek:

Tone: Excellent. Really sweet and warm. I was a bit surprised that with the tone knob full-on that the instrument produced a seriously bright top, but didn't become harsh. Good Bass. $1199.00 More on the tone later.

Next, off to Lexington, a 25 mile drive, across the Kentucky river and through rolling green Appalachian Spring into that lovely city. I reached the main Willcutt store about an hour and a half before closing. I brought my modified 2000/2001 60's classic.

The store was crowded, but no one was in the ample bass section (they have what must be hundreds of guitars, Fender, Gretch, Gibson, PRS, and more). There were 4 Road Worn basses waiting. I used a Mesa Carbine (model 6) amp, and started with a sunburst RW Jazz.

First impression: Wow. Set-up is dead-on. Not surprising, as owner Bob Willcutt is a terrific guitar tech with about 50 years experience. His crew do their jobs very well. The feel is about perfect, and even though I am not partial to the stock Fender SS round wounds, they sound great. In fact this bass sounds terrific. It invited me to spend a good 20 minutes playing, bouncing between jazz standard melodies, walks, Rock, Country guitar-style licks, chords, baroque bass lines, harmonics, slap etc. More than just very nice. Very very sweet! I want it--me bad. :help: $1249.00 USD. More later.

On to another RW P-bass. Finally Fiesta Red!. Good feel, heavier than the Jazz (!), but not HEAVY. Something about the upper mids on this bass makes so much sense. The neck is very very nice, just like the one played earlier today. I love the dry feel of the whole bass. It seems like the wood has been baked in an oven. Is it possible?

I began to wonder how a 50's classic would compare, and what do you know, there was one hanging a few feet away. It was a very pretty blonde ($849 USD). I plugged it in and played. Whoa. Not heavier than the Fiesta Red bass, but interestingly different. The neck has different dimensions (a bit thicker front to back?), but still nice. The setup is not as good. Sighting down the frets was less impressive than the RW, but this bass has too much relief--I suspect it has sat in the shop longer, as I believe I saw it here about 6 weeks ago. None of that matters...it's the tone that is the issue.

The tone of this 50's classic is really different from the two RW P-basses, and it is not about string age. The 50's classic has a lot more upper mids with the tone control full on. To me, there is a harsher, more aggressive quality. This is not bad, just different, but honestly, I very very much prefered the RW Fiesta Red P-bass I had just played. BTW, the 50's classic P-bass had a very creamy and lovely darkside with the tone rolled off.

I grabbed the other RW P-bass, another tobacco burst. I liked it a little less than the Fiesta Red P, but am not sure why. Perhaps it is just the set-up. After a few minutes, I realized I needed to compare a 60's classic Jazz to the RW Jazzes.

My modified 60's classic Jazz was sitting in front of me in my gig bag, but there was also a new one on the rack, so I took the new one, and plugged into the Carbine. Nice, but yipes, the feel reminds me of the 50's classic P. I think it is a combination of set-up and finish. I like it OK, but the RW sun-burst Jazz blows this 60's Classic Jazz away for feel--it's the neck, of course. Tone wise, it is not so different. I am finding it to be closer to the RW Jazz, but it I feel it lacks a certain sweetness and tonal complexity. I tried the typical settings I use on my 60's classic, and then went back to the Fiesta Red Jazz. The owner stopped by. He said he had heard that prices were not going down. I agreed that is was unlikely, if for no other reason than as far I knew, Fender has NEVER lowered prices, except due to inflation. We agreed that the wood of the RW basses seemed baked or dried out like vintage instruments. Is he even older than I am? He must love his job--there is steady traffic in his shop. :D

The RW Jazz is lighter than the classic, but not by much. Again, there is that dryer lighter feel with is hard to describe. There is a bright edge to the RW, but the upper mids are less harsh with the neck rolled off ~50% and playing on the bridge pickup.

I went to my own '60s Classic. Bam! My strings are totally dead compared to these basses. I can't even be bothered plugging in. Duh! I should have changed the strings!!!! Grrrr. Oh well. Back into the gig bag it goes--btw, it sounds pretty good with dead Sadowsky Bright Nickels, but no way can it be rationally compared to the Jazzes here with new SS Fender round wounds. :rollno:

Ok. Quickly back to the tobacco burst Jazz. I want it, but I am too poor. A young lad who works in the shop stops by and says, "I'm sorry, but we are closing. You have about 8 minutes more."

I chatted with him a couple of minutes, played a bit more, then packed up to go.

Final impressions from today:

1) As with all Fender basses, one may be better than the other.

2) RW MIM basses feel great, both the Jazzes and P-basses. The neck dimensions, finish, fretwork and fingerboards of the ones I played were all excellent. They can clearly set-up extremely well--basically as good as it gets set-up wise on a new Fender bass. I think the fret work on the new American Standards is a notch higher, but not so much as that would decide things for me in a shoot out--but this is off topic...

3) The RW P-bass neck feels so authentically like a vintage bass that I was really convinced. Fender did a great job on these necks--the roll of the edges is not as dramatic as on my '55, but the vintage feel is really there, IHMO.

4) The Jazz neck was more pleasing than the 60's classic, but not a whole lot--the big difference was in the finish, set-up, and strings with the two examples I played. The dimensions are very similar between the RW and Classic Jazz. The tuners are the same, though the RW tuners are obviously aged.

5) Tone. Here is the subjective part. There is a subtle and complex quality to the tone of these basses. I have played and owned many Fenders. These all have that sweet tone which I am thinking has to do with a stronger upper top, but a mellower upper mid. I am guessing here. Let's say it this way: the instruments seem warmer, and sweeter than the Classic series, but not dull or harsh, even if the tone control is full on or off.

6) Total impression. These basses were all very good Fender basses with a vintage feel and a warm complex tone. The price is what it is. I don't like the prices. If they were $250 to 300 less, I could probably swing getting one. I really want that Jazz, and only because I have an ample supply of P-basses (three) I can't justify a RW P.

7) Comparison summary--to me the P-bass felt the most authentic as a vintage-type instrument (as Bob Willcutt pointed out, these are not Reissues, they are their own thing). The tone of all 3 P-basses and both Jazzes was just lovely. Yes, they sounded better to me than the stock Classics, but that is personal preference. The body finishes were not really a big issue to me. The feel and tone of the RW basses OWNED the day for me. P and Jazz both cooked red beans and rice. I am a believer, but who is surprised??? :bassist:
 
I like the look of the relic stuff, but I can't see paying $1,000 for a MIM bass that's been relic'd. Not sure how much the CS charges for relicing a bass, but if it's the $400-$500 premium they charge on the MIM's...I don't know if it's really worth it...unless during the process they're putting some sweet pups and pots in there as well, but I doubt it. All they're doing is sanding, making chips in it (with chains? That'd probably work well), and treating the metal in some sort of acid to simulate the aging process (or speeding it up significantly). They use the Nitro finish instead of the Poly. I say get a Highway one and relic it yourself. You get MIA and you get the enjoyment of causing all the damage!

The Roadworns have the same hardware as the Fender Custom Shop. That fact, plus the nitro finish, make the Roadworn worth your while. I could care less about the relicing.

Highway One's suck, IMO and IME. Crappy hardware, dull sounding wood. The only thing stock on my last one is the body.