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Double Bass REMIC Red and FELIX

May 6, 2004
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I wanted to start a new thread here, because these two products together make great companions and because together they push upward upright bass amplification's highest practical ends.
The Remic Red mic although not as feedback resistant as the Green model sounds like a recording microphone (as present and rich as a good condenser) and can achieve on its own enough volume and presence to play a lot of gigs. For all the old school mic only guys, this mic is going to be the one, once it gets into a few more hands. Unlike it's best rival the DPA 4099 shotgun, the Remic RED IS a recording mic and sounds so much better, and is compliant to a lot of eq-ing while still sounding good and having a high feedback resistance ( for example rolling off a lot of bass HPF when mixing with a pickup)
THe Grace Design Felix is a two channel studio preamp in a rugged well thought out floor based design that creates a sonic presence that is just beautiful. The mic channel is their well known Grace 101 mic preamp, and the Felix has every configuration that you could possibly need as a string player to mix pickup and mic (or two pickups) at the highest most musical quality. From the moment you plug it in, you can hear why it is twice the cost of other preamps, it creates a clear pure sonic picture (similar to listening back in a recording studio) that is amplify-able.
These two products together cost that much too. This combination is not for the faint of heart. The Remic is $900. and the Felix is about a grand. And you still need an amp or PA.
But what you can do is pretty amazing.
I have been playing gigs with the Remic for about six months now and I either mix the mic with a pickup thru the AI Focus or the Headway EDB1. (or both actually because the pickup sounds better thru the EDB1 while the mic requires 48 Volts Phantom and while it works with the Headway, it sounds better thru the Focus. The mic adds a deep realism and dimension to the sound that keeps me using it gig after gig, even on noisy gigs where there is a fair amount of bleed from the Bar. Once you start playing the instrument, the Remic picks up so much bass that the bleed is easily overcome. The mic has a mix of two sound sources, one a channel in the foam that takes a near (but not quite) contact sound from the surface of the instrument (like an EAP) thru the foam and another perpendicular channel that pics up sound resonating in the few inches in front of the instrument (and the Remic can be placed either under the fingerboard, between the feet of the bridge, or behind the tailpiece all three yield excellent but different sounds)
The mic just delivers....every previous mic I have tried: DPA 4099, ATM 35, Troll, mini mics, dynamic mics, etc) gets to be too much of a pain in the ass after a while and I stop using it. Too many rooms where it cant work, too many cords and stuff hanging on the bass, too much feedback (my ears can't take the feedback any more) but the Remic is demure: a sliver of a foam wedge that hides behind the tailpiece or fingerboard and makes no noise, the cord is soft cotton so there is never any handling noise.
THe FELIX is a perfect match for the Remic. ITs mic channel, is just superb, clear, present, with a presence like a medium sized well padded studio room. It presents the sound of the mic in way that is super musical, and that is just flat, turning it on for the first time. With the excellent HPF alone a wide variety of useful variations are easily dialed up from a lot of deep bass to a clear open but bass reduced tone (good for mixing the bottom end of the pickup in) The eq I haven't fully explored, partly because flat sounds so good and partly because (particularly on the pickup channel) it didn't seem to have great effect, so had better read some on how to use the parametric mid eq. The Pickup channel sounds really excellent, with different impedance settings (which have a big effect) and phantom options (you can use a Schertler or other 12volt phantomed pickup without an extra box...big plus) BUT, if I was not so into this mic, and just using a pickup I dont think I would spend a grand for just the pickup preamp. What makes this a great preamp and worth the money is that it makes using a mic with a really excellent usable sound a real possibility on every gig.
Having the Felix on the floor is a great idea. Within a minute I was already using the mute switch with my foot instead of reaching up to the little button on the amp. WHile I have never thought of using one, the boost switch seems really musical for those inclined...It amps the sound in a linear way so it does not feel artificial. Don't know if I would use it but...
I am super committed to the MAS 46 that Mike made me, it sounds just superior to anything else I have tried so if I buy a FElix (this one is on loan: THanks Doug Wood at Grace Audio) I will be looking for some super small power amp that I can afix to the MAS46 and keep the Felix on the floor. Having the preamp on the floor means short cables from the bass, and only one to the amp, clean, uncluttered and not too many gain stages or things to mess up.

I'll add some clips (I am going to mic my CABINET rather then a direct signal which I think is more realistic of the sound live) and pics later....
 
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Looking forward to hearing the clips! Who makes a super small power amp these days? Is Demeter the only manufacturer making one? There has to be others.

Well, there haven't been many manufactures to go into this market. SWR made the Amplite, Acoustic Image built the Focus SA, Walter Woods built a MI-100-8 slave amp, while Demeter designed and built the Minnie 800D.

Flying Mole built a 100 watt SMPS power amp. Apparently the market for these amps is pretty small.

Ric
 
Yeah I may just stick with the Focus for now which has a whole repeat of the Felix front end (a lot of knobs and buttons) but it put a piece of tape across the eq and you have a Focus SA. I dont think it is much bigger....But the Minnie is a perfect form factor. I know it can be done smaller though. Just a line in and a volume switch and a little box.
 
How about the new Clarus SL? Seems small enough to velcro on to the back of the MAS46.

Nathan,
Interesting idea, I saw the amps at the ISB convention in Ft. Collins, CO..
They are small definitly small enough to be used as power amps, but they'd need to vent due to the heat they throw off. There's a lot of components packed into a very tight space. One would have to be careful not to block off it's air circulation.

Ric


yeah looks like thats it.
 
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I have to give the Felix back next week but I wanted to post a clip of the Remic thru the Felix and then thru my amp (focus III and MAS 46) mic'd with a Beezneez Jude into Logic via an Apogee Duet. I love what this mic does. Clear loud, feels like the bass. THere is no pickup on this track. THe Felix just sounds utterly great.
 
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I have to give the Felix back next week but I wanted to post a clip of the Remic thru the Felix and then thru my amp (focus III and MAS 46) mic'd with a Beezneez Jude into Logic via an Apogee Duet. I love what this mic does. Clear loud, feels like the bass. THere is no pickup on this track. THe Felix just sounds utterly great.


Poor,
Beatrice, nice playing, I love that tune. What I like about the sound of your Remic, is the front end of it's Attack and follow through, into the beginning of each notes subsequent decay. It faithfully reproduced those transients capturing the breath, accuracy, and fullness of your Double Basses sound. The Sustain is clean and just the right length, so notes don't overlap. Each release is very clean, through the Remic, so there is a accurate reproduction of the fall off each pitch would have acoustically. I've had similar experiences using the Felix with the DPA 4099B and Ehrlund.

Ric
 
Thanks Ric. Ya know yesterday I took a cue from you and plugged my earphones into the Felix to audition the various inputs without the color of the speaker. Very informative. First I was messing with the mid eq on the pickup channel and discovered that with the Underwood anyway the Para eq sounded better when I BOOSTED the mids. I had it set to low mids so maybe it is boosting more in the bass range but it sounded way better. Then I A/B'd the Remic against the 4099b and first thing I noticed was that the Remic has WAY more gain. That is, the 4099 at the same volume settings was much weaker a signal. Also the 4099 tends (listening thru phones) to pick up A LOT of reflections of what is coming off the surface of the bass rather then the bass itself. The Remic with its two sources sounded rich and full. THat said, the 4099 sounds pretty great thru the Felix coming out my amp...Lots of what makes adding a mic worth it. I also started fooling with the Remic placement and discovered that wedging it under the fingerboard just above the bass bar gave an excellent sound....
I have to say too that the 4099 has way way more handling noise. The 4099 is always making some unpleasant noise on my bass either from the mounting or the cord dangling on the bass or the gooseneck bumping the bridge. THe Remic is dead silent...I wouldnt pay an extra $400 for a cloth cord, but it sure makes a difference in ease of use and quality of signal.
 
What you said about how the Remic sounds is spot on...It does that thru the amp too. I just love the way it sits with a band. It adds all this harmonic richness and breadth and yet does not cloud the sound. I use a lot of short notes both in accompanying and in soloing and the Remic just sounds right. Also when it is up under the fingerboard, there is this nice organic boost when you start soloing (and getting higher on the neck) that adds intensity.
 
In my humble opinion, the Green model is not done yet. I think there is more tweeking to be done and Thor will send me a new one when they have done that. I cannot get the Green one to sound like the Red mic BUT the truth is it still works. I think Thor explained to me that the Green has 80 % of its sound coming from the contact portion of the mic while the Red has much more equal sound between contact and mic. THe Green CAN have all the Remic sound, just with a weird mid bump. Also certain positions (like under the tailpiece can cause a kind of intense unpleasant sound. I am going to send the Green down to Andrea Spada and see if he or one of his friends can get it to sound good. I think it will really depend on the bass and I am hoping that with a bunch of basses to choose from (including the small bodied Contrabassettos) that maybe one of them will sound great with it.
I think that it was made to mic string quartets in loud rock settings (like on their website...fricken horrible devil music euro death rock) but the mics on the string section come thru.
I just dont need that.
The Red even REALLY LOW in the mix compared to the pickup adds SO MUCH BODY and richness to the sound that I am content. Every time I pull out the Green to test it (last time was trying to get the Felix to tame it) I just cant get something I like. If I didnt have the Red, I would prolly use it and figure out how to mix in the pickup to make up for the weird mids...
 
I saw the Wayne Shorter Quartet last night. Great Music. Brian Blade was unreal. JP used the Felix and 4099 thru his amp. He had a really excellent sound. very clear and present. The sound guy at the Jazz Center knows enough to keep the stage volume and only add a bit to the room so mostly it was an acoustic set (little FOH support). JPs sound came mostly thru his amp and the Felix. The mic adds so much liveness, especially in the arco passages but really the whole time.
....I think the Remic has a way warmer more realistic and less brittle sound then the 4099.
 
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I saw the Wayne Shorter Quartet last night. Great Music. Brian Blade was unreal. JP used the Felix and 4099 thru his amp. He had a really excellent sound. very clear and present. The sound guy at the Jazz Center knows enough to keep the stage volume and only add a bit to the room so mostly it was an acoustic set (little FOH support). JPs sound came mostly thru his amp and the Felix. The mic adds so much liveness, especially in the arco passages but really the whole time.
....I think the Remic has a way warmer more realistic and less brittle sound then the 4099.

According to the DPA Website, John uses the DPA 4099B, in combination with more expensive the DPA 4021 FOH. I assume, that's why John needs the Grace Felix, as he dosen't use a pickup. Were you close enough to tell if that was the case?

Ric
 
Well he had a big back line amp....a 4/10 speaker with what looked like a Eden head on top but it prolly was Aguilar. Definitely had a pickup going too. It really sounded like he had the Felix and pickup mixed into his rig. The SF Jazz Center has a great sound guy. The sound of the entire band sounded and felt like it was acoustic (or stage sound from his amp) Brian Blade plays whisper quiet sometimes, and there was only one mic on him. Wayne had a mic but most of his sound was coming to us acoustic.

Last night I had my last gig with the Felix until I buy one (gotta send it back today) Loud loud quartet playing hard fast modern jazz. I had the Remic as loud as I have ever had it. The sound was spectacular. THe mic sound added so much to the presence of the band. THe drummer immediately noticed and dug it. Later I had a friend sit in for a tune so I could listen to the whole band from the room. Man that is a spectacular sound. I had the pickup and mic about equal.
The Felix has its own color or presence or something. I noticed it with JP, I notice it on my own rig. IT sounds as though you are playing in a tight padded studio. Puts the bass sound in such a great sonic space with the band. It allows the mic to be present without being uncontrolled.
At one point I walked out onto the street last night and even half a block away the bass sound was spectacular. I have found the sound for me....I wish someone else would check out the Remic it is so killing....
 
According to the DPA Website, John uses the DPA 4099B, in combination with more expensive the DPA 4021 FOH. I assume, that's why John needs the Grace Felix, as he dosen't use a pickup. Were you close enough to tell if that was the case?

Ric
he still uses the realist. some gigs will be 100% pickup, some will be 100% mic (sometimes 2 mics), some will be a blend of 2 or all 3. it all depends on the situation. last time i saw him with brian blade he went 100% mic because brian plays so quiet, but when i saw him with jeff watts it was all pickup into a tone hammer 350. i think he was trying to go into the crappy PA with the dpa mic but the speakers sounded like they were blown.
 
Little update on life with the Remic. I know it is expensive and Nathan and I are prolly the only cats with Remics BUT 2 things: Last couple of gigs I got the brilliant idea to wedge the Remic into the F hole on the G side. Killing sound. Way MORE sound before feedback. I am loving this mic in a duo setting by itself and with a pickup rolled in minimally. I was getting frustrated that there are only really 3 places for it, under the tailpiece, under the bridge and under the fingerboard. Where I really wanted it was just under the g side bridge foot....well I want to be able to put it other places. In comes the H clamp: wedged under the H clamp I have a lot more possibilities for placement, mostly over near the F hole or G bridge foot.
Stuck in the F hole there isnt any of that woofy too muchness that other mics have, I dont know why, but turning it a little this way or that gets you a thicker or more treble sound. Really digging it and looking forward to getting that Felix....