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Repeating songs at a paying gig? Thoughts?

#141
tspallone said:
I'm getting the feeling that you guys are split on this, as I am.

Frankly, I'm against it. BUT, as was said, it's a friggin farmers market!!!!! Enjoy the autumn day playing music (albeit 4 times a song) and take the money and buy my girlfriend lunch.
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Hey, OP. I saw that you're from Nanuet, and I thought I might have something to offer regarding the local farmer's market scene. Seriously? It is SO low pressure, that you do not need to get that worked up about having a small repertoire. Work on it if you can, but consider where you're playing. And if you're still worked up about it? Ask locally about that particular farmers market.

I was at a farmers market in Bergen County a few weeks back. They had an acoustic duo performing, and people seemed to be appreciating what they were doing. The thing is, THEY were only playing about 5 or 6 songs, and then they'd just run through their set again. I didn't see the farmers market organizers hounding them, saying "Why are you only playing the same 6 songs?!?!"

Truthfully? It was a little annoying to me as a musician, but again consider the context: it's a farmer's market. People who are there are much more concerned with buying fruit, vegetables, bread, etc. The musical program is the least of their concerns.
 
#142
ShoeManiac said:
Hey, OP. I saw that you're from Nanuet, and I thought I might have something to offer regarding the local farmer's market scene. Seriously? It is SO low pressure, that you do not need to get that worked up about having a small repertoire. Work on it if you can, but consider where you're playing. And if you're still worked up about it? Ask locally about that particular farmers market.

I was at a farmers market in Bergen County a few weeks back. They had an acoustic duo performing, and people seemed to be appreciating what they were doing. The thing is, THEY were only playing about 5 or 6 songs, and then they'd just run through their set again. I didn't see the farmers market organizers hounding them, saying "Why are you only playing the same 6 songs?!?!"

Truthfully? It was a little annoying to me as a musician, but again consider the context: it's a farmer's market. People who are there are much more concerned with buying fruit, vegetables, bread, etc. The musical program is the least of their concerns.
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Thanks for providing some actual experience-based advice.

All those wringing their hands over how unprofessional and demeaning this would be need to realize that their worldview may not always be the only way to live. :rolleyes:

I don't see what the big problem is; I would rather not repeat six songs four times, but if my band decided to do this, I would go along with it... unless I was just looking for an excuse to get out of that band anyway. Someone who would leave a band over this must be pretty special.

Yeah, I'm a hack... lowering standards and pay rates all over the Tri-State... :D :rolleyes:
 
#144
ShoeManiac said:
I was at a farmers market in Bergen County a few weeks back. They had an acoustic duo performing, and people seemed to be appreciating what they were doing. The thing is, THEY were only playing about 5 or 6 songs, and then they'd just run through their set again. I didn't see the farmers market organizers hounding them, saying "Why are you only playing the same 6 songs?!?!"
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Which, of course, you'd probably never see. Most people suck at personal confrontation, and wouldn't make a scene to the point that someone like yourself would notice. Rather, they just won't book that act again and "lose" their number.

Playing a single gig poorly isn't the end of the world for anyone, but few of us would do something this hokey.
 
#145
Agreed on the confrontation front. That being said, the acoustic duo I was speaking of? They were a couple of college age girls singing in unison, with one of them playing guitar. That, combined with their limited repertoire said to me that whoever was booking music for this particular farmers market wasn't terribly interested in the quality of the act they were booking. It came across much more as "Oh, my niece has a band. I'll have her play the farmer's market".

Are the standards different for other farmer's markets? From the responses in this thread alone, I think that's very easy to establish. Case in point? The Woodstock, NY / Hurley area farmers market that Levon Helm used to play which Petrus referred to earlier in the thread. It's a world of difference.

Where things should ultimately be measured? Pride in your work is a big factor here. And there's also the matter of return on investment for a gig. How much work is going into a gig that will pay X dollars? Will said gig lead to other opportunities? All of that being said, would I hire that acoustic duo that I saw at the farmers market I was at? I'm sure they're very nice. But based on that performance? No, I wouldn't hire them.
 
#146
OP, are you confident the band has the ability to pick a key or couple chords and improv over them? Perhaps stretch out the solo sections or add solos the the songs you have. If your band is going to play the gig regardless, you may want to insert a simple, extended jam between each "standard". It shouldn't be too hard for any halfway decent band to come up with a key and go from there. It could lead to some interesting music if you're all somewhat adept at your instruments and timing. Or, it could be a complete train wreck. Good luck!
 
#147
Bassdirty said:
+7500 ;)
I agreed so much and so fast to your response that i didnt bother to finish the thread..



IMO, THAT is what two fingers is missing..its not always about people taking a cornfield gig / or any gig too seriously..
It's only about honoring your commitment.that's it.

If it pays more it's more serious?
Screw the farmers?..Hildi n whomever?
Real Nice.
I usually Used to agree with several of your posts. But this thing you have about telling people to "relax, and taking things too serious"?.. I don't get it.
A commitment should be a commitment.... kinda speaks of character I guess...wether7500 or Free.

k..
off to finish the thread.
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I think your hysteria has also caused you to conflate this to a whole n'other level. The observation that this is a farmers market gig does not mean that there are people in this thread who are encouraging the OP to be sloppy and lazy. It is just a statement of fact that there will not be drunks yelling out requests and bartenders getting pissed off over repeated songs and so on. As far as I can see, nobody has said anything about "screw the farmers" and not taking this seriously because the pay is too low.
 
#149
There are dozens of jazz tunes based on twelve bar blues. You could also play a circle 6 (ice cream changes / "I Got Rhythm" changes) and do a dozen more.

I had a college jazz group that did a regular off night gig. One night when were all a bit stoned, the sax player started the set with, "good evening folks. The next set will be brought to you by Blues in Eb." And we played 12 bar blues for 50 minutes, non stop, just changing the melody. And still had tunes we could have played.
 
#150
no one here saw the post i made about pat martino playing the same exact set 2 times in one night at the Blue Note? maybe people here never heard of pat martino? if its ok for pat id say its ok, even though you may prefer not to do it that way. clearly these guys arent prepared to do more, and it would be silly not to take the gig. they'll get through just fine, just like martino did that night when he gave the profession a bad rap and drove wages down
 
#151
shwashwa said:
no one here saw the post i made about pat martino playing the same exact set 2 times in one night at the Blue Note? maybe people here never heard of pat martino? if its ok for pat id say its ok, even though you may prefer not to do it that way. clearly these guys arent prepared to do more, and it would be silly not to take the gig. they'll get through just fine, just like martino did that night when he gave the profession a bad rap and drove wages down
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Pat Martino doesn't need to establish a reputation like a new band does. But if they don't care about reputation or future gigs then I guess it is ok to play it. I would personally be embarrassed to go out and play the same 6 songs over an over, but to each their own.
 
#152
bolophonic said:
I think your hysteria has also caused you to conflate this to a whole n'other level. The observation that this is a farmers market gig does not mean that there are people in this thread who are encouraging the OP to be sloppy and lazy. It is just a statement of fact that there will not be drunks yelling out requests and bartenders getting pissed off over repeated songs and so on. As far as I can see, nobody has said anything about "screw the farmers" and not taking this seriously because the pay is too low.
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The best way to reply to a thread..with "an opposing viewpoint" or at leas contradict an opinion. .is to actually read it.
My text was ONLY to two fingers.

BUT..the more I read. .the more I want to just roll eyes..and just figure that these people who say the hacks are ruining it for real musicians ara absolutely onto something.

Not all of us take things so god damn serious.
but I dont give a fck..if you commit..give word whatev..you do what you commit to.
that absolutely relates here as the person hiring im gonna assume that if they are paying for 2 hrs music..they're expecting 2 hrs music...not some rank amatures with 25 minutes of music and then get fd over.
jesus..what the f is wrong with you people that call yourselves entertainment?


Of course..this is my opinion. .go on everyone. . Book shows..make commitments you cant honor..par for the course these days.
And then people complain bout bars payin sht pay.

ymmv..but in reality probably wont.
 
#153
two fingers said:
Actually, no. But I did play in steady working bands for well over two decades. At points I did it for a living. The guys that were in those bands are still my best friends. And I still do fill-in work all the time. I get work from bands from Nashville, here locally, and all over the Eastern Seaboard.

That being said, here's the thing. I don't rank every gig the same. Many of you do. If I am playing a wedding and the band is getting $7500 I take it very seriously. I do customer service like nobody's business. I do all the MC stuff and make sure EVERYBODY is having a great time. I don't take breaks. I go check to make sure the bride and her parents are satisfied.

However, if I am playing a farmer's market, for a few hundred bucks, with a brand new band of up-and-comers, I take it with a grain of salt. I go, play my 6 songs, throw in a couple 12 bar blues jams, and don't give two happy craps what the ears of corn think about my repeating songs.

Now, if your life is so empty that you have to treat a jam at a local farmer's market as another "really important gig" and sweat the details, and have fifteen rehearsals, I am really sorry for you. If I were to somehow piss off Farmer Fred and Hilda, the secretary who booked a jazz band for a farmer's market, I'll be OK. If they decide not to have me back because I played April in Paris twice, then I will still be able to put food on the table.

Lighten up sugar boobies. Some gigs are just laid back jams. And, quite often nobody cares how seriously you take your playing, the gig, or music in general. I assure you that having a jazz band at a farmer's market is probably not an awesome idea to begin with. You reckon Farmer Brown is gonna know if the bass player is doing Summertime in Q flat while the sax man is doing it in Z sharp? Uh..... nope.


OP, go play the stinking gig and be done with it. Nobody will care if you do OK or knock it out of the park. Use it as a dress rehearsal, get your money, and go learn some more songs for the next one.

Taking a farmer's market jam seriously...... my big old BUTT.
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This, this....every bit of this!

I read the first few pages of this thread and am stopping at this post because it very clearly sums up my feelings. And for the record, I have and do play in gigging bands and would put my live resume up against just about anyones who doesn't play for a living. But I digress...

I will only add that if its the OP's intention to play the Farmers Market circuit in his hometown, then yeah, repeating the songs probably won't help with that lofty goal. Otherwise, as Two Fingers said....play the gig, have fun and learn more songs for future gigs.
 
#154
fhm555 said:
Depending on the venue, not repeating a song multiple times is as bad as playing the same song back to back.

I played in a little country band and we played places where dancing was almost as popular as drinking and whatever the current top country dance tune was would be requested over and over again all night. At first we would play it once then tell the girls requesting it we'd already done it. They would get all pouty and petulant and hang out at the stage trying to get us to do their favorite (at the moment) song again so they could drag Billy Bob back out on the floor to strut their stuff for him another time.

If the place was big on line dancing, we could have gotten away with playing the same two or three songs all night.

Point being, if you are hired as entertainers and if the people you are being paid to entertain want to hear the same song 4 or 5 times that night, you are being paid to make them happy, not enlighten them to your musical ethics and/or mastery of a song list so massive you need never repeat a tune on that particular job.

What is truly ironic is you will work the same room two weekends in a row and do the same set list, with maybe a few minor variations and not even give it a second thought, but the same song in the same night somehow implies a lack of skill or a slight to your honor as a musician?

When you are being paid it is for your skill as a player, but it is also for your ability to show the unwashed masses in attendance a good time. If that good time includes wanting to hear certain songs more than once, it is a testament to your skill as an entertainer to play them with a smile, even if it's twisting your panties so hard it hurts your ego something awful.
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Very spot on post. Personally, I prefer not repeating songs, but there are circumstances where doing so wouldn't only be acceptable but even expected of you as an entertainer.
 
#156
I'd recommend having a few charted standards or blues tunes in your hip pocket just in case a handful of people appear to be hanging around listening to the band instead of shopping for fruits and vegetables. They just might be bar owners or booking agents looking for new bands to book, or they might be potential fans of your band if you move on to bigger and better things. But, in any case, you need to learn a lot more songs.
 
#158
Bassdirty said:
BUT..the more I read. .the more I want to just roll eyes..and just figure that these people who say the hacks are ruining it for real musicians ara absolutely onto something.

Not all of us take things so god damn serious.
but I dont give a fck..if you commit..give word whatev..you do what you commit to.
that absolutely relates here as the person hiring im gonna assume that if they are paying for 2 hrs music..they're expecting 2 hrs music...not some rank amatures with 25 minutes of music and then get fd over.
jesus..what the f is wrong with you people that call yourselves entertainment?
Click to expand...

If only all club owners / promoters expected / demanded the same quality as some of us strive for here, then possibly more bands would be compelled to step up their game...but there's always gonna be venues that will only book bands who draw lots of buddies, with the only goal being to move beer. Nothin gonna change there. Silly rose colored glasses.

It's not strictly all business, that isn't what I am saying at all. But you have to have that somewhere in the equation, alongside the art or whatever if you're in the business of covers. If you're an original artist, you can be a hot mess onstage as long as you're delivering the goods and creating a moment and really sellin me on your tunes, etc. I love the spectacle as much as the next guy. I love to experience that kind of art unfold. Some of the most memorable of music could be said to have been created by the decidedly LEAST business savvy people ever, and that's great as it'd be expected I guess...

But yeah...if you're in a band playing covers for money, learn some dang covers. 2 hrs. worth. ;)
 
#160
hover said:
...but there's always gonna be venues that will only book bands who draw lots of buddies, with the only goal being to move beer...
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Hate to break it to you friend, but if you are playing in a bar, the ONLY goal is to sell alcohol. They don't care if you play the same Tiny Tim song over and over all night long so long as alcohol sales increase enough to cover the additional cash outlay required to pay you, plus some profit on top. ALL the bar owner cares about when they book a band, or a DJ, or a traveling dog and pony show, is selling alcohol. They don't care what you wear, what gear you bring, how you sound, or how you look, EXCEPT how any or all of that relates to YOUR ability to increase their alcohol sales. If you approach a bar gig with any other expectations you will always be disappointed. The crowd is not coming to see you, they are coming to drink and hopefully score some sex. You could be the greatest undiscovered bass player on this planet and the people showing up could care less about that than the bar owner does. You could be a full fledged assclown and the crowd and bar owner wouldn't notice. They want an excuse to buy someone a drink and hopefully get in their pants, you just provide the background music. You are no more than a live version of elevator music. If that's too much for you to deal with, avoid the disappointment and forget playing in bar bands, because if you have expectations beyond being a beer sales person, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Granted, there will be exceptions to this rule, but in this day and age when a band can put themselves on the world stage with no more effort than uploading a silly kitty vid to You Tube, being "discovered" playing a bar gig is more nostalgic fantasy from the past than a reality of today's situation regards music and making the big time.

My brother and I played in bar bands for many years and he stayed frustrated because he suffered from the misconception that musical talent was why people were showing up where we played. Back then it had something to do with it, but when we'd play dance tunes the floor was full, when we got into extended wanks which would only impress the musicians in the audience, the drinking crowd would put up with for a few minutes then they'd get up and go some place where they could hear Brown Eyed Girl and Mustang Sally while they danced and bought their (hopeful) score for the evening another drink hoping that would be the one that would loosen their drawers enough to allow them in.

People might say they are going to a bar for the band, but those same people claim they buy Playboy for the articles.
 

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