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Rescuing a badly-twisted 1964 Jazz Bass neck

When I got my first look at this thoroughly warped and twisted '64 Jazz neck, my first thought was that it would just be a throw-away - just too far gone, left outside, under tension in too many hot garage days in the triple-digit Las Vegas summers, maybe? Clamping the neck down I found a full 1/4" of really ugly twist from one end to the other.

But, having just recently had the job of un-twisting some pernambuco cello and bass bows, I knew there was still a slim possibility of success with the much larger and denser maple bass neck, applying the same principles. What did I have to lose, anyway? Another luthier had already given it the do-not-rescuscitate tag. So I've been reading of another luthier currently being sued for breaking a twisted, but very valuable old cello bow, and read all the expert analysis as to how that occurred, and set about coming up with a strategy for un-twisting this neck, without making the same mistakes apparently made by this poor guy. The key, apparently, to a successful un-twisting is the even, consistent application of a sufficient level of heat that warms the entire neck to its core, before applying pressure in the opposite direction. And then, keeping it for a sufficient time under steady heat and pressure to effect the desired change.

My first challenge was coming up with a way to be able to heat the entire neck, and be able to keep it consistently heated to the core for a long enough period of time (even weeks if necessary) to allow the wood to re-set. I also didn't want there to be too much heat, as to cause any other damage to the finish or the glue holding the fingerboard on. Since I don't have a kiln, it occurred to me to wrap it with a long, 22"x12" heating pad, that I keep around for my sore back. After wrapping it tightly around a piece of scrap for a while, I found that on medium setting, it keeps the wood at a consistent 130 degrees, just about the same temp as a typical Las Vegas garage during the summer, as luck would have it.

So, I set up on the edge of a workbench, with a 3/4" block under each end to make space under the neck for fully wrapping the heating pad around it; a radiused clamping caul over the frets on the treble end; and some 3/32" shim stock under one side of the block under the tuning head end to set the opposite twist a little beyond dead flat in the other direction. I removed the truss rod nut, let the neck warm up for a couple hours, and then clamped the treble end down hard, and fortunately did not hear any cracks, creaks or groans from the neck as I gradually increased the clamp pressure on the tuning head, applying twist in the opposite direction.

After only a couple days, I opened it up to check - no real measurable progress, but also no heat damage to the finish or the fingerboard glue seam or any cracking evident, so I figured Ok just let it continue and re-clamped it, with a little bit more shim stock under the tuning head end. A couple days later I checked again, there was finally about 1/16" less twist! (25% closer to my goal!) That got me excited. So I re-clamped it and didn't even look again till Day 7, where it had reached within 1/16" of perfect flatness!

So, now I've re-clamped it - My question is, now that I have it almost flat
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should I expect some twist-back, and keep it clamped until it's actually slightly twisted in the other direction? Or should I just relax, and stop the heat-press process as soon as it's exactly flat? Or - should I wait till it's flat, and leave it clamped flat for a few days to let it "set"?
 
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i vote for stopping once you're there rather than overshooting.

i haven't done a lot of this kind of stuff, but i have discovered that the way i do it, with 2 heat lamp bulbs in desk lamps over the course of an afternoon, moved often to heat the whole thing from the fretboard side while clamped significantly in the other direction from the twist or bow or whatever, can easily re-train the neck enough to end up too far the other way!
 
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Well, this morning (day 8) the twist is gone entirely and it's perfectly flat now. @walterw I think my mechanics intuition is agreeing with your vote to stop at perfectly flat. I'm going to just let it rest for a while now, and see what it does, I can always put it back in clamps if it starts re-twisting on its own. Seems to me 1/4" is an awful lot of twist to take out, and since there's a lot more mass to a bass neck than a violin bow and it's been twisted under tension & unplayable for a long time, I'm guessing it could take longer than 8 days and more than one heat/press cycle to take it out permanently.

Reading all the really experienced violin bow experts analyzing what happens in the process of re-cambering or removing twist from old bows (in that breakage lawsuit) got me thinking. Usually the old guys will just pass the bow stick through an alcohol flame, keeping it moving until it "feels" like they have it heated enough to apply opposite twist, or to bend in isolated areas to re-camber the bow. This has always seemed to me a rather crude and inexact way to do things, but it's thw way I was taught too. The analysis that made most sense to me was that the bow that broke was not heated to the core well enough, and the difference in the core temp to the surface temp caused enough internal tension in the bending-back process to break the wood. I just don't want to make that mistake with something as valuable to me as a '64 Jazz Bass neck.
 
Well, this morning (day 8) the twist is gone entirely and it's perfectly flat now. @walterw I think my mechanics intuition is agreeing with your vote to stop at perfectly flat. I'm going to just let it rest for a while now, and see what it does, I can always put it back in clamps if it starts re-twisting on its own. Seems to me 1/4" is an awful lot of twist to take out, and since there's a lot more mass to a bass neck than a violin bow and it's been twisted under tension & unplayable for a long time, I'm guessing it could take longer than 8 days and more than one heat/press cycle to take it out permanently.

Reading all the really experienced violin bow experts analyzing what happens in the process of re-cambering or removing twist from old bows (in that breakage lawsuit) got me thinking. Usually the old guys will just pass the bow stick through an alcohol flame, keeping it moving until it "feels" like they have it heated enough to apply opposite twist, or to bend in isolated areas to re-camber the bow. This has always seemed to me a rather crude and inexact way to do things, but it's thw way I was taught too. The analysis that made most sense to me was that the bow that broke was not heated to the core well enough, and the difference in the core temp to the surface temp caused enough internal tension in the bending-back process to break the wood. I just don't want to make that mistake with something as valuable to me as a '64 Jazz Bass neck.

I'm not a luthier. This is all fascinating to me. Will it really remain permanently straight under string tension after having been twisted so long?
 
I used heat to take a nasty ski ramp out of an early 60's P-bass that could have been there for decades, that was a year ago and it's still straight.
 
That is some fascinating science you got going there. I would have naively thought steam should enter the equation somehow, but that would probably delaminate the fingerboard or some other horror. I suppose if you added and water content to the wood it might be more likely to re-twist when it dries? By doing it all dry, maybe it will stay the way you have it until it's next Las Vegas episode.
 
That is some fascinating science you got going there. I would have naively thought steam should enter the equation somehow, but that would probably delaminate the fingerboard or some other horror. I suppose if you added and water content to the wood it might be more likely to re-twist when it dries? By doing it all dry, maybe it will stay the way you have it until it's next Las Vegas episode.

Well, moisture content in wood would be the subject of a whole 'nuther giant thread (and I have my own little horror story on the subject of introducing moisture to dry wood. hint: don't do it.) Suffice it to say, ADDING moisture into this equation would introduce chaos of unmanageable proportions. I was recently corresponding with a luthier from a humid climate who had sold a bass to a local guy, who'd brought it to me in an entirely unplayable condition, due to the desert environment here that sucks the moisture right out of anything you bring here. I built pipe organs for 25 years, and wrote this to the luthier, to explain what had happened to the bass:

"When building organs for drier climates, which are very large-structure items by comparison to basses, we always had to anticipate the shrinkage, up to 1/4" or more in some cases. I never could find a mill that would dry the wood down to a lower equilibrium moisture content (EMC) for us, so it was always a predictive guessing game how to build our windchests and casework. We did build a smaller 'hotbox' sort of a shed to kiln-dry certain woods down to a lower EMC if they were going into windchests or other really sensitive components for dry climate areas, and that helped a lot, but it took weeks and months sometimes to get the moisture contents down to the target ranges.

If you can find a copy of this book, get "Understanding Wood" by Dr. Bruce Hoadley - he was a frequent lecturer at the organbuilder conventions who had done massive amounts of really solid scientific research into wood movement by species and cut as attenuated by EMC and is about as good a tool as you'll find for this. With all the laminations and mixing of wood species as you are doing, it's probably a must-have for your bookshelf. Just between you, me, and the intertubes, I'll be surprised if some of the laminations on this bass survive the desert climate long-term, especially the cross-specie joints what will shrink at different rates and dimensional proportions. ... But this arid desert climate is extremely harsh on woodworking and no amount of indoor humidification can compete with mother nature here. Stuff just has to be allowed to dry out and find a new equilibrium eventually. "
 
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OK, a WAG from a guy that did remove a ski jump from a 66 P bass neck.
That particular piece of maple wants to twist the way it did
and, given enough time, will do it again.
Sure, it may take 50 years to get back to where you found it,
but it naturally will try to.
Therefor, I'd go a little beyond where you want it.
Not enough to make noticibly difficult to play,
just a little.
Then when it trys to return to where it wants to go,
it will actually be getting better for the first few years. :hyper:
 
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You're probably going to have fret work to do after all of this. All that twisting can affect how they are seated, plus, they most likely won't be dressed evenly after all of the un-twisting you've done.

Yeah I've been thinking at very least it'll need a good level&crown, but these are really light gauge frets - not a lot of meat on them to begin with. If any of them start coming loose, I'll probably just recommend re-fretting. Should be a fairly straightforward job on this one.
 
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Well, I'm not sure. Depends on what glue was used. Hide glue melts at around 145° so you're not far from that. Maybe a Fender expert will chime in on that. The finish is probably durable enough to take the needed heat, which I'm guessing is more like 200°. Given that the neck isn't bound, it wouldn't be the end of the world to remove and reset the fingerboard if it comes loose.
 
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