RESOLVED New Bass Build has no Lows

[el_Bajo_Verde]

This is in the wrong forum, but the bass is wired wrong, and the mismatched pickups might be out of phase, too.

 

[4StringTheorist]

Yeah. No. Miswired basses don't settle in.

Walk away for wood parts to settle in and perhaps there will be subtle tone changes as the bass acclimates to it's finished assembled form and environment. But it won't make wrong sound right.

You're exactly right about miswired basses not settling in. I'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise, and apparently you thought that was my assertion. I'll take your smartass tone as you responding to someone you thought was an idiot. Cool. First time I've been taken for a fool this year, but certainly won't be the last.

I was responding to OP on the assumption that there was something wrong with the instrument acoustically, not electronically, in case no one had covered those bases. For my part, if the issue's electrical, my guess is out of phase pickups based on OP's description. If the issue was acoustic rather than electronic I offered something I remembered hearing from authorities: two guys who've made a living and their professional name doing this stuff, and both of whom started in acoustic instrument making. I've got no clue to what extent it'd be relevant to OP's issue. Perhaps, or perhaps not at all.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

You're exactly right about miswired basses not settling in. I'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise, and apparently you thought that was my assertion. I'll take your smartass tone as you responding to someone you thought was an idiot. Cool. First time I've been taken for a fool this year, but certainly won't be the last.

I was responding to OP on the assumption that there was something wrong with the instrument acoustically, not electronically, in case no one had covered those bases. For my part, if the issue's electrical, my guess is out of phase pickups based on OP's description. If the issue was acoustic rather than electronic I offered something I remembered hearing from authorities: two guys who've made a living and their professional name doing this stuff, and both of whom started in acoustic instrument making. I've got no clue to what extent it'd be relevant to OP's issue. Perhaps, or perhaps not at all.

Sorry, I didn't see "acoustic" or "assumed" in your first post.
Must have missed those in my earnest effort to post so quickly as to be the first to personally attack you this year.
I take back everything you assumed to infer from my actual words.

 

[bdplaid]

There's a builder forum video on YouTube with Roger Sadowsky and Michael Tobias... At one point both of them mention that when constructing and assembling an instrument, they finish it, tune it to pitch, then walk away for a few days. Both of them mention that it can take time for the instrument to settle into its sound.

I don't know how this is possible, but I've noticed the same with some of my builds. Honestly though, I thought it was just that my ears were fresher when I came back.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I don't know how this is possible, but I've noticed the same with some of my builds. Honestly though, I thought it was just that my ears were fresher when I came back.

Probably a combination of both.

 

[Bass'd on a true story]

Ok!

The issue is resolved.

I don't know exactly what the problem was.

I looked in the control cavity and a few of the pieces of the copper shielding tape I put in were coming up and could possibly have been contacting other components. I don't know if that matters, but I didn't do the best shielding job and I think I might go back in with some glue a little later.

Once I reassembled it (I had taken off the neck and bridge also) completely, it sounded great! I will possibly never know what really was wrong.

Thanks TB.

Feel free to close this thread now... I will be posting a NBD replete with pictures, sound clips, and maybe even a bit of video!

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Ok!

The issue is resolved.

I don't know exactly what the problem was.

I looked in the control cavity and a few of the pieces of the copper shielding tape I put in were coming up and could possibly have been contacting other components. I don't know if that matters, but I didn't do the best shielding job and I think I might go back in with some glue a little later.

Once I reassembled it (I had taken off the neck and bridge also) completely, it sounded great! I will possibly never know what really was wrong.

Thanks TB.

Feel free to close this thread now... I will be posting a NBD replete with pictures, sound clips, and maybe even a bit of video!

Glad to hear that the issue was resolved! I'd bet big money that the loose shielding tape was making contact where it shouldn't be and therefore shorting something to ground that shouldn't be and/or shorting components that shouldn't be.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Ok!

The issue is resolved.

I don't know exactly what the problem was.

I looked in the control cavity and a few of the pieces of the copper shielding tape I put in were coming up and could possibly have been contacting other components. I don't know if that matters, but I didn't do the best shielding job and I think I might go back in with some glue a little later.

Once I reassembled it (I had taken off the neck and bridge also) completely, it sounded great! I will possibly never know what really was wrong.

Thanks TB.

Feel free to close this thread now... I will be posting a NBD replete with pictures, sound clips, and maybe even a bit of video!

Good job!
Sounds like the shielding, which is grounded (or should be), was touching something it shouldn't.
I hearby confer upon you, the Electronics Fixer-Upper of the Day award. Congratulations!

ps I'll need it back before I go back to work tomorrow, thanks.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

There's a builder forum video on YouTube with Roger Sadowsky and Michael Tobias... At one point both of them mention that when constructing and assembling an instrument, they finish it, tune it to pitch, then walk away for a few days. Both of them mention that it can take time for the instrument to settle into its sound.

I imagine that there are benefits to doing this (approaching with 'fresh ears' makes a lot of sense), but I think that one thing to keep in mind with things that Sadowsky, Tobias etc say is that they do have an interest in maintaining an element of 'mystique' about the building process, tonewoods etc. I'm not saying that they're being deliberately misleading but they're not going to take away from that mystique if they can help it, so I wouldn't just take what they say without considering that they're in the business of selling premium instruments.

 

[smogg]

Ok!

The issue is resolved.

I don't know exactly what the problem was.

I looked in the control cavity and a few of the pieces of the copper shielding tape I put in were coming up and could possibly have been contacting other components. I don't know if that matters, but I didn't do the best shielding job and I think I might go back in with some glue a little later.

Once I reassembled it (I had taken off the neck and bridge also) completely, it sounded great! I will possibly never know what really was wrong.

Thanks TB.

Feel free to close this thread now... I will be posting a NBD replete with pictures, sound clips, and maybe even a bit of video!

OK, let me get this straight. You accidentally built "the best bass for metal" and then "fixed" it.
WHY?

 

[micguy]

Shielding shorting things to ground is unlikely to cause a thin sound - the impedance of magnetic pickups is low at low freq’s - a short is likely to cause no output or a dull sounding bass., not a thin sounding one.

A really thin sound is more likely an open circuit. Fiddling with the shielding, you likely connected two pieces of ground that weren’t connected before. Or you temporarily made a bad connection ok.

I say this because, assuming My guess is right, the fix may not be permanent - especially when you don’t know what “fixed” it.

 

[Bass'd on a true story]

Shielding shorting things to ground is unlikely to cause a thin sound - the impedance of magnetic pickups is low at low freq’s - a short is likely to cause no output or a dull sounding bass., not a thin sounding one.

A really thin sound is more likely an open circuit. Fiddling with the shielding, you likely connected two pieces of ground that weren’t connected before. Or you temporarily made a bad connection ok.

I say this because, assuming My guess is right, the fix may not be permanent - especially when you don’t know what “fixed” it.

Well I also reseated the bridge and the neck and my placebo-prone lizard brain is telling me that it's resonating more. I really have no clue what happened or why anything I did helped, but it sounds great now. The joints looked really solid, I don't think there were any loose/bad connections.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Well I also reseated the bridge and the neck and my placebo-prone lizard brain is telling me that it's resonating more. I really have no clue what happened or why anything I did helped, but it sounds great now. The joints looked really solid, I don't think there were any loose/bad connections.

Well, with evidence presented from your latest info, I will defer to what you did to fix it because, unlike all of the rest of us guessers, you were the only guy with eyes on it. That's pretty much the equivilant of a picture being worth a thousand words.
Nice work.

 

[Greyfoxxero]

Yeah, mixing pickups means one of the pickups may need its wires reversed to be back in phase. A pickup out of phase is distinct in that is sounds thin, almost in a disturbing way.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

A really thin sound is more likely an open circuit. Fiddling with the shielding, you likely connected two pieces of ground that weren’t connected before. Or you temporarily made a bad connection ok.

Good point - fixed that in my post. I don't know anything about the odd tone control so kept open the possibility of something in that shorting to ground where it shouldn't be.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

There's a builder forum video on YouTube with Roger Sadowsky and Michael Tobias... At one point both of them mention that when constructing and assembling an instrument, they finish it, tune it to pitch, then walk away for a few days. Both of them mention that it can take time for the instrument to settle into its sound.

I imagine that there are benefits to doing this (approaching with 'fresh ears' makes a lot of sense), but I think that one thing to keep in mind with things that Sadowsky, Tobias etc say is that they do have an interest in maintaining an element of 'mystique' about the building process, tonewoods etc. I'm not saying that they're being deliberately misleading but they're not going to take away from that mystique if they can help it, so I wouldn't just take what they say without considering that they're in the business of selling premium instruments.

It has more to do with letting the wood and strings adjust to tension, before doing any final set up. The first time a neck is string to tension, it's going to move a little. Strings too, as they stretch out and work out any overtones or weirdness. If you try to get both the neck and strings "settled in" before doing your setup and intonation, it's more likely to be closer to its final form when it reaches the customer, requiring little or no further adjustment (depends on the climate it goes to, of course).
.

 

[Toptube]

I imagine that there are benefits to doing this (approaching with 'fresh ears' makes a lot of sense), but I think that one thing to keep in mind with things that Sadowsky, Tobias etc say is that they do have an interest in maintaining an element of 'mystique' about the building process, tonewoods etc. I'm not saying that they're being deliberately misleading but they're not going to take away from that mystique if they can help it, so I wouldn't just take what they say without considering that they're in the business of selling premium instruments.

You can notice this phenomenon yourself, with your own basses. New strings or not. Even through temperature climate and/or seasonal changes. No special environment needed. I notice it from casually snatching my bass from its stand.

Tobias and Sadowsky are not trying to pull some mysterious veil over your eyes with basic, general bass knowledge. And to suggest that they are is pretty toxic.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Tobias and Sadowsky are not trying to pull some mysterious veil over your eyes with basic, general bass knowledge. And to suggest that they are is pretty toxic.

I’m not suggesting that at all, nor am I casting aspersions on either of these people. I’m simply saying that it’s worth approaching statements like these critically and with an understanding that they are being made by people whose businesses have a premium image to maintain.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

WAIT JUST ONE MINUTE, Did anyone else ever at any time see any pics? Huh? I thought not.

I think we got played.......................just sayin'

 

[-Asdfgh-]

RESOLVED!!
Edit-
Ok!

The issue is resolved.

I don't know exactly what the problem was.

I looked in the control cavity and a few of the pieces of the copper shielding tape I put in were coming up and could possibly have been contacting other components. I don't know if that matters, but I didn't do the best shielding job and I think I might go back in with some glue a little later.

Once I reassembled it (I had taken off the neck and bridge also) completely, it sounded great! I will possibly never know what really was wrong.

Thanks TB.

Feel free to close this thread now... I will be posting a NBD replete with pictures, sound clips, and maybe even a bit of video!


Original post-

Hey guys!

So I just finished this build I've been doing for months and month and everything turned out spectacularly, except for one really weird problem. The bass doesn't really seem to have any lows and it's the brightest bass I've ever played.

At first I blamed the strings, I had put brand new D'Addario NYXLs on it. But I swapped them out for 1+ year-old TI flats and it still sounds super aggressive and angry. The pickups are really high-quality vintage sounding pups that people usually use to get more classic tones.

Every other aspect of the bass is amazing and it feels/plays like heaven. I just can't seem to figure out where my thump is! I've played hundreds of basses over the years and this one has got to be the most aggressive, least bassy bass that I've played yet.

I'm open to the idea that I did something wrong. Let me know what you think.

I've taken to lining the cavity with paper after the copper, to be on the safe side.