Reverb increases fees

[Killing Floor]

Y'all know there are 2 threads about this right now.
But I do think it's funny that their letter makes it sound like they're doing it for the benefit of all mankind.

 

[hennessybass]

TB is and has been great to me over the years.
CL has also been pretty good for buying / selling / trading. I personally hope this drives more traffic to CL.

Paying 5% to Reverb for everything you get seems pretty reasonable when you think about it. World wide audience, tech platform, support, etc, etc...
Still better than Ebay, right?
It used to be that if things weren't happening on CL, and you wanted to put your stuff in a local shop to get it in front of eyes, that would be about 20%.

I decided to delete my Reverb account recently after their atrocious business decision to get involved in politics. I wonder how many people there were like me. If enough people left, of course Reverb would have to up their fees to offset the loss.

Etsy bought Reverb for $275 million dollars last year, and Reverb made $36 million in net revenue.
I doubt you made a dent in the bottom line. I doubt a thousand people who deleted their Reverb account because of politics made a dent in the bottom line.

But what do I know... maybe you're a big time seller or maybe some other big time sellers quit and they'll ONLY net like $28 million down the road.

How long until Craigslist charges? Probably not long..

CL has been doing the thing for about 25 years... and aside from adding locations hasn't changed their business model in that time (or their web page design). I think CL is safe.

 

[telecopy]

TB is and has been great to me over the years.
CL has also been pretty good for buying / selling / trading. I personally hope this drives more traffic to CL.

Paying 5% to Reverb for everything you get seems pretty reasonable when you think about it. World wide audience, tech platform, support, etc, etc...
Still better than Ebay, right?
It used to be that if things weren't happening on CL, and you wanted to put your stuff in a local shop to get it in front of eyes, that would be about 20%.



Etsy bought Reverb for $275 million dollars last year, and Reverb made $36 million in net revenue.
I doubt you made a dent in the bottom line. I doubt a thousand people who deleted their Reverb account because of politics made a dent in the bottom line.

But what do I know... maybe you're a big time seller or maybe some other big time sellers quit and they'll ONLY net like $28 million down the road.


CL has been doing the thing for about 25 years... and aside from adding locations hasn't changed their business model in that time (or their web page design). I think CL is safe.

Let's hope so.

 

[ClusterFlux]

It’s a 43% increase in fees when you do the math.

I'm sorry, but although that is technically correct, it's also absurd.

If you sell an item on Reverb for $1000, then their cut went from $35 to... $50 OMG NOOOO!!! Or, you can simply charge an extra $15 (like a bunch of other sellers will do) to make up the difference.

Externalities like this are downright common in business. If this change results in you losing 43% of your profit margin on each sale, then maybe you're in the wrong business.

The emails they share about the large donations they’ve made to political organizations, and then charging sellers more leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Makes me feel like I’m paying for their donations, to improve their image.

I'm not sure how to break this to you, but... that's how it works. They provide a service; they charge you for that service; sometimes, they donate some of those revenues. Where else are they supposed to get funds for donations?

 

[hennessybass]

I'm not sure how to break this to you, but... that's how it works. They provide a service; they charge you for that service; sometimes, they donate some of those revenues. Where else are they supposed to get funds for donations?

Yep. Corporations are people and money is speech, and everyone you do business with is in that business.

I guess aside from all the regular 70 youth education programs they give money to these are the "objectionable" organizations that Reverb gave money to...
------
The Chicago Freedom School was founded to train the next generation of activists and changemakers in Chicago as they tackle social justice issues, organize mutual aid initiatives, and learn to become leaders. As the group has said about its own work in the past, it's a place where Chicago's youth can have "a political home to develop their consciousness and voice."

Chicago's My Block My Hood My City champions social justice and empowers young people in Chicago's neighborhoods to explore the wider world, while remembering to look out for their community.

Color of Change is one of the nation's leading national organizations fighting for racial justice, committed to holding prosecutors accountable, ending money bail, and other campaigns toward criminal and economic justice.
-----

I'm not sure how any of those are "political." They sound like fine organizations to me - kids, communities, empowering young people, justice for all people.
Maybe there is some other objection?

Anyway, I still think 5% is a pretty good deal, and I encourage people to use CL (and TB of course).

 

[JES]

Signing up for when we reach the full “outrage at outrage” phase of the thread. I’m honestly fine with a small fee increase. Had great experiences there, on TB, on Craigslist, Facebook, Muffwiggler, and on Kijiji. And back in the day, Harmony Central and The Bottom Line. The only time I’ve been disappointed was buying an old Alesis reverb for $75 and it reeked of smoke when I got it. Worked fine though.... I guess I’ve been lucky.

 

[sunbeast]

Still about 40% (of the cost of whatever I was selling!) cheaper than selling something as consignment in a local store, which was one of the best options to sell gear when I was younger.

Reverb’s CEO is now the guy from Indiegogo, which charges almost that exact same fee both for a successful campaign and for credit card/bank processing fees.
I’m pretty sure most people here that have tried to sell a number of significantly valuable gear on Reverb/Craigslist/Talkbass can’t honestly say that they don’t derive value from the exposure and implied protection offered by Reverb. I’d LOVE for Craigslist/OfferUp or TB to work for me, but my success rate from any of them is WAY lower than Reverb. In fact I’ve sold everything I’ve ever posted on Reverb, which is still usually the last place I will post when all else fails...

 

[Lammchop93]

I'm sorry, but although that is technically correct, it's also absurd.

If you sell an item on Reverb for $1000, then their cut went from $35 to... $50 OMG NOOOO!!! Or, you can simply charge an extra $15 (like a bunch of other sellers will do) to make up the difference.

Externalities like this are downright common in business. If this change results in you losing 43% of your profit margin on each sale, then maybe you're in the wrong business.

I sell on their as a hobby to flip gear that I get a good deal on. So not trying to make a living, but this certainly takes some fun out of it.

But on top of the increase, they also charge their fees on shipping (which is absurd to me), and then they charge the seller tax, so that discourages them to pay them extra $15 if the seller tries to pass that onto the buyer.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

I decided to delete my Reverb account recently after their atrocious business decision to get involved in politics. I wonder how many people there were like me. If enough people left, of course Reverb would have to up their fees to offset the loss.

Isn't deleting your account because of their business decision to get involved in politics, in and of itself, a political statement ?

 

[buldog5151bass]

1.5% increase is 15 bucks per thousand and they get killer rated for ups shipping of heavy items like amps. as a guy stated in another group, 5% is nothing to get my goods in front of a worldwide audience and to get paid regardless of if the buyer decides to pull some shenanigans on the back end with their credit card
plus having dealt with selling issues with both ebay and reverb, I'd much rather deal with reverb

I'm out. It's Craigslist from now on.

How dare they try to make a profit? You are, in essence, running a small business. Compared to those costs, it's a huge bargain. Go back to CL, nitro a search here on all the members who got scammed there (never mind the large and focused buyers that Reverb and some lar services offer.

 

[serch777]

I decided to delete my Reverb account recently after their atrocious business decision to get involved in politics. I wonder how many people there were like me. If enough people left, of course Reverb would have to up their fees to offset the loss.

Actually, if you refer to the BLM movement, it makes me happy that they made a stand on an issue that transcends "politics" and is inherently a basic human rights matter.

 

[aekisz]

How dare they try to make a profit? You are, in essence, running a small business. Compared to those costs, it's a huge bargain. Go back to CL, nitro a search here on all the members who got scammed there (never mind the large and focused buyers that Reverb and some lar services offer.

It's their business. They can run it however they want. As I am free to make my own decisions on how to sell.

I just used them to flip gear that I don't like and limit the loss. This latest policy change is just one of a series of annoyances that have accumulated with them over the past year (straw+1=broken camelback). I wasn't happy about their getting rid of ReverbBucks. That was a handy way to shuffle equipment (and disguise purchases from: "she-who-surveys-the-credit-card-statements.")

The tax thing? Not their fault. The Wild West days of untaxed internet purchases going by the wayside everywhere.

But they've been hassling me (twice in the past few months) about underpayment of shipping costs with audits that make no sense. They blame UPS audits, but I always add a few pounds for wiggle room and they came back at me with a shipping weight for a short scale bass that was almost twice what it could possibly be for bass + box + bubble wrap (I know because I weighed it on a regularly calibrated laboratory scale). Twice they came back at me for extra shipping costs. Then they get rid of ReverbBucks. Now this?

Goodbye.

I'll still buy stuff through them if they manage to stay in business.

 

[JES]

I wasn't happy about their getting rid of ReverbBucks. That was a handy way to shuffle equipment (and disguise purchases from: "she-who-surveys-the-credit-card-statements.")

LOL, I don't really think the company can be faulted for not facilitating deception in a marriage.

 

[thetragichero]

i used to buy gear and discreetly place in the music room so months later i could tell the ex "I've had that for awhile"
these days i confirm with my wife before making purchases over ~$100, even though the money is coming from gear sales. besides an honest relationship i value her opinion not clouded by my emotional "i want it"

 

[aekisz]

LOL, I don't really think the company can be faulted for not facilitating deception in a marriage.

Who's faulting them? They can do what they want. It was just a handy feature that no longer exists. Hence I'm exercising my freedom of choice as did they.

 

[Real Soon]

The prices went up at my local Thai restaurant, too.

Not ideal, but I'll deal.

And hey, if reverb's recent actions makes a bunch of racists cancel their accounts, I'm okay with that.

As for the fiscal policy and weird seller handling practices, maybe it'd be more apparent to me if I sold more on there. I've shipped I think three pedals via reverb sales, but the rest of what I've sold has been local. Mainly, I just don't want to deal with shipping a bass.

But I do have a couple more pedals I might go ahead and get listed.

 

[IronLung1986]

I don't think this price increase itself is something to get especially worked up about, but I do think it's silly to defend Reverb against criticism of it. All they did was figure out a way to obtain more of our money. They calculated how many would leave their platform and how many would stay and thought "Yea we can do this. People will stay and just pay us more. Why not do it?" Obviously it's "their decision", but there's no virtue in it. The best I can really muster is grudging respect for an astute business decision. And I'm certainly not going to argue with anyone for leaving Reverb over this. Good for them really. Corporations are getting too much of a pass for dressing up their models like charity these days.

 

[Chrisv889]

It’s a bummer. Unfortunately, this is how I supplement my income. Locally, people are grabbing up every piece of equipment they find in thrift stores, yard sales etc. The former have raised their prices to near retail in many cases. This fee increase is going to make it harder for me to buy stuff at a decent enough price to turn it. It’s gotten so competitive locally and online. I will say, though, that my best deals have been found on letgo. The fee increase is a bummer, but I get it. The bright side? This may open the door for a new company to come in as the new reverb. Give them competition they way they did eBay. Any investors out there?

 

[Chrisv889]

I'm sorry, but although that is technically correct, it's also absurd.

If you sell an item on Reverb for $1000, then their cut went from $35 to... $50 OMG NOOOO!!! Or, you can simply charge an extra $15 (like a bunch of other sellers will do) to make up the difference.

Externalities like this are downright common in business. If this change results in you losing 43% of your profit margin on each sale, then maybe you're in the wrong business.



I'm not sure how to break this to you, but... that's how it works. They provide a service; they charge you for that service; sometimes, they donate some of those revenues. Where else are they supposed to get funds for donations?

You’re right about sellers wrapping up this increase in their sales. I’m nearing 300 transactions on reverb, and I really don’t want to do that. I saw this happen when they started collecting tax. Ultimately, buyers will be the most affected, not the sellers. Sellers like myself have to make a living. I’d rather not do it this way, though. But like in any retail setting, the buyer pays the price. Oh well. At least we have it!

 

[DDXdesign]

My only issue with Reverb is that it's not just the one fee, it's a stack of them. Almost 10% in total I think, and that was before this increase. But still, it's a decent place to sell before a focused audience that is wider than TB.