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Reynolds Wrap shielding

I hate to admit how little I know about electronics but I have always thought of the foil shielded cavity as a shield block. I don't understand why the shielding needs to be part of the total ground circuit of the system. What would be the problem of not having continuity between the shielding tape/foil and the ground running thru the other components? On the several instruments that I have shielded, all are dead quiet in all environments and none of them have the shielding connected to ground. ?????
Rocky
 
I hate to admit how little I know about electronics but I have always thought of the foil shielded cavity as a shield block. I don't understand why the shielding needs to be part of the total ground circuit of the system. What would be the problem of not having continuity between the shielding tape/foil and the ground running thru the other components? On the several instruments that I have shielded, all are dead quiet in all environments and none of them have the shielding connected to ground. ?????
Rocky

The idea of shielding is to create a Faraday cage around the components in the control cavity.

Any RFI/EMI/whatever that contacts the shielding gets grounded out before it can pass through the shielding to reach the inside of the control cavity.

If you do not ground the shielding, the electrons will simply pass through the shielding and continue on into the cavity, where they can be picked up in the circuit.
 
Does anyone use the black conductive paint?
John and the crew

I use it all the time. It's not the cheapest option in terms of up-front cost (about $35/12oz. can), but it saves tons of time and will be just as effective as copper (or aluminum) if done properly. I've done probably 4-5 basses, included pickup cavities, and still have well over 1/2 can left.

I use a nickel shielding paint called Super Shield from MG Chemicals. So far, the basses I've used it on have gone as dead-quiet as any copper-shielded bass I ever build or shielded (about 5 or 6). Conductivity is excellent - well below the impedance of my multimeter's leads. I haven't put a current through it to measure the voltage drop, but I'm not worried about it.

Nickel is the electronics industry standard for EMI/RFI shielding. We nickel plated our aluminum enclosures that housed mission-critical telemetry electronics when I worked with NASA sounding rockets. Yeah, plating is best, but not really practical with a wooden instrument...
 
Resistance, not impedance!

While I wouldn't doubt it if there was some parasitic capacitance somewhere with shielding, you shouldn't have any significant reactance, and therefore, it is purely resistive.

Reactance is only the imaginary part of a complex impedance. Just because there is no reactance doesn't mean there is no impedance - it's just not complex. We're getting into semantics, but resistance IS impedance.

I'm an EE (circuits) - I think in terms of impedance, whether it's purely resistive or complex, but I do know the difference.
 
We're getting into semantics, but resistance IS impedance.

Resistance is part of impedance. Without reactance, it's just resistance though.
I guess technically if the reactance is zero, the resistance is equal to the impedance. Z = (R2​ + 0)0.5​
But at that point, I would just call it plain ol' resistance, because there is no need to overcomplicate it.

Sorry, like you said, arguing semantics.:hyper::hyper::hiding:
 
Lol. Copper tape is much better choice.
Electrically, there is no (0) difference in this application.

The highs-killing aspect of shielding doesn't have anything to do with added capacitance, but changing the electrodynamics of the pickup cavity, in the same way that nonferrous backplates change the sound of Telecaster bridge pickups (ferrous backplates change both the electrodynamics and the electromagnetics), trading twang for bump.

Check Bill Lawrence for a more detailed explanation of this.

A friend of mine who was a music producer at Sony insisted that full shielding would kill some highs on a Telecaster (where you'd notice, right?), but I didn't believe him at the time because he couldn't give me an explanation of why this would be other than added capacitance, which wouldn't be sufficient to account for it in practice. The electrodynamic interference explanation does.

Personally, I think that shielding is an overrated pastime. ;)
 
This is good to know. My wife has a little machine made by Xyron that puts an adhesive backing on any flat material. I could just run the foil through it then stick it right in the control cavities.

What I do is get hobby copper foil and there is spray-on adhesive that comes in a poof can. Various brands. Typical is Scotch Spray-mount. Get it at hobby or artist supply places.

The problem with aluminum is making a good connection to it. There is aluminum solder but I've never had good luck with it. The usual quick and dirty aluminum foil shield tries to use just one piece of foil (no foil to foil connections) and you ground it with a wood screw through it (a folded area) that has a nice serrated solder lug on it. The serrations dig into the foil and the solder lug lets you solder a ground wire to it.

Still for the price of some copper foil and the effort of ripping the bass apart and putting it back together, I wouldn't use aluminum foil unless I was *really* short of cash!
 
Does anyone use the black conductive paint?
John and the crew

I've used it in the past and sort of gave up on it. I have several basses that used conductive paint from the factory. Some were excellent and some hummed and had to be reshielded with copper foil to be quiet.

I've tried paint and I'll admit that sometimes it works just great. Shields like a champ. Cheap. Easy to apply. And the very next time it's not working right! I have no idea why. Maybe it's me. I don't know. So what I know now is copper foil always seems to work.

Conductive paint like aluminum foil also has the connection problem. Again the wood screw with the serrated solder lug seems to a credible job of making contact.
 
Labi...> Sure. First is the problem of soldering to aluminum foil as others have allready noted. 2nd, installation for copper tape is simple, its got sticky back so you can make it all nice and neat and attached to the control cavity walls. Its also sturdier, regular thin aluminum foil tears easy in comparrison. One of the first things I do when inspecting a used guitar or bass. After checking neck, fretwork, and checking for any issuers with build. Is remove the control cavity cover. If I see its got grocery store aluminum foil stuffed or otherwise in there for sheilding, I not only giving it back but gonna ask why the peep thought it had any value at all. If Im gonna build a bass or guitar from a kit, or redo the electronics, I'm gonna use at least nice budget import grade bass or guitar stuff in it. I;m not gonna be so cheap as to use aluminum foil. I want to have a qaulity end product that someone might be willing to at least pay a price comprable to used budget gear from ESP Ltd, Ibanez, Peavey. If I'm gonna be so cheap as to use aluminum foil, I might as well also be in the market for the worst cheapest poorest qaulity pickups I can find for a few cents to imo. One doesnt have to use audiophile grade wires and boutique pups and pots and caps. But one should at least be willing to use radio shack grade stuff imo. Maybe I have too high a regard for guitars and basses, But I want any I have to be at least nice budget grade qaulity thruout. I think the instrument itself deserves no less. If I cant afford regular shielding material, Id leave it unsheilded untill I could.

The shielding paints are also good easy to apply choice as well.

Can aluminum act as a emi/rfi shield material? Yes. Invalid Link Removed But here its done as a tape. Not loose foil. O you could glue it I suppose. But still.

Bottom line, grocery store aluminum foil is gonna be like useing the absolute cheapest, tastes bad, generic green beans, you can find to serve at an important dinner. Its gonna be the poorest grade aluminum available. And thus not nearly as good for the wanted purpose as aluminum tape sold for the specified purpose of shielding. So you use serated washer and screw on your grocery store aluminum foild to make the contact with wire since wont solder to it. Ooops, serated washer etc just tore up your carefully installed aluminum foil and gotta redo it.

Yikes people. International bass and guitar help forums etc should be about helping folks get the best qaulity and best for them available within their budget. Someone finding they could do a cheap temp shielding fix of hum problem with aluminum foil is one thing. But useing it as permanent solution seems like promoting useing interior wall house paint and paint brush to get a qaulity coloring of the instrument. Fine if your gonna for textured wall and ceiling paint look for the instrument. But lousy as a "use interior latex and paint brush to refinish your bass" as a legitimate suggestion for peeps looking for good inexpensive way to refinish their bass.
 
Labi...> Sure. First is the problem of soldering to aluminum foil as others have allready noted. 2nd, installation for copper tape is simple, its got sticky back so you can make it all nice and neat and attached to the control cavity walls. Its also sturdier, regular thin aluminum foil tears easy in comparrison. One of the first things I do when inspecting a used guitar or bass. After checking neck, fretwork, and checking for any issuers with build. Is remove the control cavity cover. If I see its got grocery store aluminum foil stuffed or otherwise in there for sheilding, I not only giving it back but gonna ask why the peep thought it had any value at all. If Im gonna build a bass or guitar from a kit, or redo the electronics, I'm gonna use at least nice budget import grade bass or guitar stuff in it. I;m not gonna be so cheap as to use aluminum foil. I want to have a qaulity end product that someone might be willing to at least pay a price comprable to used budget gear from ESP Ltd, Ibanez, Peavey. If I'm gonna be so cheap as to use aluminum foil, I might as well also be in the market for the worst cheapest poorest qaulity pickups I can find for a few cents to imo. One doesnt have to use audiophile grade wires and boutique pups and pots and caps. But one should at least be willing to use radio shack grade stuff imo. Maybe I have too high a regard for guitars and basses, But I want any I have to be at least nice budget grade qaulity thruout. I think the instrument itself deserves no less. If I cant afford regular shielding material, Id leave it unsheilded untill I could.

The shielding paints are also good easy to apply choice as well.

Can aluminum act as a emi/rfi shield material? Yes. Invalid Link Removed But here its done as a tape. Not loose foil. O you could glue it I suppose. But still.

Bottom line, grocery store aluminum foil is gonna be like useing the absolute cheapest, tastes bad, generic green beans, you can find to serve at an important dinner. Its gonna be the poorest grade aluminum available. And thus not nearly as good for the wanted purpose as aluminum tape sold for the specified purpose of shielding. So you use serated washer and screw on your grocery store aluminum foild to make the contact with wire since wont solder to it. Ooops, serated washer etc just tore up your carefully installed aluminum foil and gotta redo it.

Yikes people. International bass and guitar help forums etc should be about helping folks get the best qaulity and best for them available within their budget. Someone finding they could do a cheap temp shielding fix of hum problem with aluminum foil is one thing. But useing it as permanent solution seems like promoting useing interior wall house paint and paint brush to get a qaulity coloring of the instrument. Fine if your gonna for textured wall and ceiling paint look for the instrument. But lousy as a "use interior latex and paint brush to refinish your bass" as a legitimate suggestion for peeps looking for good inexpensive way to refinish their bass.

+1
 
Labi...> Sure.
Thanks darkstorm. Perfectly elaborated. I wish you'd written this post earlier.
The reason why I chose aluminum over copper is that I just can't find copper where I live. Also, the initial post on this thread says that aluminum worked fine and I had no reason not to believe that. Well I actually did it this weekend and the results are unbelievable. Using double sided tape I made aluminum strips like the one in the pic. It was extremely easy to apply and the washer didn't tear the foil. The noise is gone. I believe that the copper would be longer lasting, but this too is a solution.