Has anyone tried any of the golden age ribbons? They have an active tube ribbon that Im interested in. It seems like the tube would help keep some crispy top end and prevent the mic from sounding too dark.
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Double Bass Ribbon Mic for Recording?
- Thread starter BassiklyAC
- Start date
Bet that sounded great. Is your record on Spotify? YouTube? Would like to hear it!
Earlier I mentioned Samar Audio. If you do not want a dark sounding ribbon mic, seriously, check out the Samar models. I have an AEA R84 and a Royer 121 and I rarely use them. The Samar's sound like a combination of a ribbon and a large diaphragm condenser and they are not nearly as fragile as other ribbon mics. Don't just take my word... there's lots of reviews to check out. Also, in the 10 years or so I've been using them I don't think I've ever seen a used one for sale. People that buy them seem to keep them. I guarantee I'll never sell my pair.
Wow those mics look amazing! The al95 looks perfect for hobbyist recording and their higher end mics are all decently priced. I don't think you can beat $400 for a US made ribbon mic with in house transformers, not to mention they look very durable.
It seems Samar focuses on cutting cost by optimizing the manufacturing process, not by cutting quality.
My first dealing with Samar was modifying an old AKG c1000 for me. At the time their main gig was winding custom transformers for old ribbon mics and they did repairs and mods. The c1000 mod they did was so impressive that I decided to take the plunge when the VL37 came out (around 700 bucks it seems). It was a preorder thing and I waited about 9 months for the mic. I was impressed from day 1. The cool thing is every one they make is identical so a VL37 I bought 3 years ago is an exact stereo microphone to my original VL37. And that's mainly what I use them for now, stereo recording acoustic groups. Personally, for my own double bass recording I usually prefer an LDC off the bridge and and SDC off the fingerboard. However, if you really love ribbons for double bass, a Samar will not let you down, I promise. And, yeah, the manufacturing is amazing.
I would think where a ribbon might shine with upright is capturing a nice warm bowed tone. I am not totally convinced a ribbon would be all that beneficial for pizz.
The owner of Samar Audio geeks out over construction and technical details for the affordable AR95. Sounds interesting!
Exactly, why? As in why would a ribbon be better for pizz than say a decent condenser or even a dynamic like a Sennheiser MD441 or EV RE20.
AFAIK ribbons are typically used for smoothing sounds that are too detailed or mellowing bright sources. I could definitely see these qualities being useful when close mic'ing a bowed stringed instrument. I don't think these qualities are necessarily that beneficial for pizz. IMHO mic technique alone should be able to get you where you need to go with pizz. But don't let my
y opinion discourage you from buying more mics 
. AEA has several pizz recording with different ribbons:
This is sort of a weird sounding bass IMHO.
I'm sure there are some nice warm Neumann and Telefunken LDCs that would work well for bowed upright...but your getting into
. I wouldn't discount a nice SDC if you already have a few in your collection.
Exactly, why? As in why would a ribbon be better for pizz than say a decent condenser or even a dynamic like a Sennheiser MD441 or EV RE20.
AFAIK ribbons are typically used for smoothing sounds that are too detailed or mellowing bright sources. I could definitely see these qualities being useful when close mic'ing a bowed stringed instrument. I don't think these qualities are necessarily that beneficial for pizz. IMHO mic technique alone should be able to get you where you need to go with pizz. But don't let my
I think you may have mischaracterized "ribbon character," implying that they somehow "smear" a sound to remove certain characteristics. I won't argue regarding ribbon vs. condenser, as both are suited well for double bass. But a good ribbon mic, due to its very light moving element, is really good at responding quickly and accurately. A moving-coil dynamic, even one as good as the MD441, has much more mass needing to be moved than a thin aluminum ribbon. Transients are pretty darned good from good ribbon mics.
Exactly, why? As in why would a ribbon be better for pizz than say a decent condenser or even a dynamic like a Sennheiser MD441 or EV RE20.
AFAIK ribbons are typically used for smoothing sounds that are too detailed or mellowing bright sources. I could definitely see these qualities being useful when close mic'ing a bowed stringed instrument. I don't think these qualities are necessarily that beneficial for pizz. IMHO mic technique alone should be able to get you where you need to go with pizz. But don't let my
AEA has several pizz recording with different ribbons:
This is sort of a weird sounding bass IMHO.
I'm sure there are some nice warm Neumann and Telefunken LDCs that would work well for bowed upright...but your getting into
I'm a bluegrass guy and I know a lot of guys (especially old time players) that love a big pillowy low end. Over the top mud in some of cases. It's not my favorite tone because I like a little more definition. When you're not competing with a kick drum and not playing anything busy, I think the low end from a ribbon is great. From there you can mix in a condenser to get the definition you want
As with any recording setup mic choice isn't the only factor. Mic placement, preamp choice and, especially, room acoustics all play huge roles in recording with ribbons because they like some distance from the instrument. Set everything up right and you can get some great pizz tones with any good ribbon mic. It's just a different tone than most SDC's and LDC's. Most ribbons can take a lot of EQ too. It all comes down to recording whatever the best tone for the song is so you choose whatever mic sounds best in the mix, not what sounds best soloed. However I have to agree, a ribbon usually gives me the best arco tone for the song at hand about 80% of the time. Something about how they smooth out the top end they just place you in the mix just right. I think they kick condensers butts on violins, violas, cellos, etc. most of the time too.
Exactly, why? As in why would a ribbon be better for pizz than say a decent condenser or even a dynamic like a Sennheiser MD441 or EV RE20.
AFAIK ribbons are typically used for smoothing sounds that are too detailed or mellowing bright sources. I could definitely see these qualities being useful when close mic'ing a bowed stringed instrument. I don't think these qualities are necessarily that beneficial for pizz. IMHO mic technique alone should be able to get you where you need to go with pizz. But don't let my
AEA has several pizz recording with different ribbons:
This is sort of a weird sounding bass IMHO.
I'm sure there are some nice warm Neumann and Telefunken LDCs that would work well for bowed upright...but your getting into
OK, IS IT JUST ME??????
I noticed subtle differences only among the first four mics.
When it came to the fifth mic, the AEA R88 STEREO mic. That one is much more 'clear and distinct sounding' less low-end (which 'can' sound a bit muddy by comparison). I'm not sure yet whether I like this one best, I just noticed that it is the most unique sounding among the five.
I'm wondering how much of this is due to the fact that it is a 'STEREO' mic. I get what I feel is an incredible sound when I record my bass with the onboard XY (stereo) mics on my Zoom recorders. I'm thinking that it's the stereo effect that really makes a big difference. Perhaps using two mono mics would achieve the same thing of something similar. Some posters have recommended a LDM in front of the f hole or bridge and a SDM toward the fingerboard?
Thoughts????
@AGCurry In my experience the perception of detail comes from extended HF response and/or emphasis in the HF response. I will the post frequency response plots for the AEA ribbon mics in the recordings posted earlier plus various condenser and dynamic mics in the next post, and let you draw your own conclusions.
These charts came from recordinghacks.com
R84
N8
R44
A440
R88
These charts came from recordinghacks.com
R84
N8
R44
A440
R88
Attachments
Just going by the graphs (I've heard it said we 'listen with our eyes') and with a common bias toward 'flat', the EV RE20 looks awfully good - especially considering the price.
It's also interesting that the Neumann U87 pretty much defines 'ruler-flat' from 50-5000 hz.
I'd love to A/B these two in a blindfold test on my own bass to hear which 'graph' sounds better to me.
It's also interesting that the Neumann U87 pretty much defines 'ruler-flat' from 50-5000 hz.
I'd love to A/B these two in a blindfold test on my own bass to hear which 'graph' sounds better to me.
I think my favorite for pizz with this bass is the R84 followed by the R88. To my ears these two sound more open, even, and detailed, which I like. I might make a different choice with the bow.
I have worked with the RE20 a fair amount. It sounds great on some sources and awful on others. I really liked it on low brass instruments such as trombones and euphonium. The bad thing with this mic is it really does not have much of off-axis rejection. If you are going to use it on upright, you will probably want it pretty close to the bass, so you don't pick up too much of the room.
I have not worked with the MD441, but I did audition one we had in the shop in Germany against the MD421. We had a bunch of 421s..they were ubiquitous. I was totally blown away by how much better I thought the MD441 sounded. I have read these sound great on upright as well, and they have a super cardioid polar pattern.
