Rick 4003SW - US quality rant...

[lfmn16]

Its not about the quality but their warranty , I dont support it so I dont buy his basses, it does not hurt at all, I can wait till the next owner take over and see if she/he comes with a better policy

As I said, to each his own.

 

[Frank77]

I don't understand the "nothing is perfect out of the box" comments. True, I haven't bought a ton of instruments in my life (5 total), but the few ones I bought brand new were perfect right out of the box - and when paying upwards of 1k$, I think it'd be wrong to expect anything less (just this guy's opinion). I'm still 'wowed' everytime I pick them up, and other than basic setup to fit my playing style, never had to have any repairs done to them. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Reading this thread, it seems like the switch issue with this particular bass is neither new nor uncommon. When I transpose this to my experience working in manufacturing, at the company where I currently work whenever an issue comes up with a specific component that becomes a weakness for our product, we will intensify inspections for that particular issue until engineering comes up with a suitable, more reliable replacement and/or a design revision for the next production run.

Again, maybe I'm naive but I don't understand why something as trivial and inexpensive as a switch could be an issue for so long. I don't understand either why musicians seem to be so tolerant of quirks like this when they're paying so much.

 

[mndean]

I'm not sure what universe some people are living in, but many of the new products I buy, especially in the past 30 years, have issues right out of the box. I spent 16 grand on a Honda Civic 13 years ago, and I can't count the number of times I've had to bring it back to the dealer for them to address for some kind of recall. There's one that I was just recently informed about - 13 years after I bought the car, something about an air bag, that they keep leaving phone mail messages on my voice mail about. It never ends.

I bought a Corolla 7-1/2 years ago. One recall, computer. Nothing else needed but oil, filters, pads, and scheduled maintenance. The problems I see with Ric isn't just this switch, but also pickups, finish issues, tail lift (addressed now, I guess) and worst of all a general hostility towards customers with problems (this isn't the only forum I frequent). All this would keep me away if I were interested in one. I may be good at fighting companies, but I sure hate wasting my time doing it.

P.S. I have no dog in this as I tried a Ric when the 4003 came out and it was not for me, so I bought a Jazz instead, close to 35 years ago.

 

[mapleglo]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm am extremely happy with my Honda Civic. But to keep things in perspective, they have their QA issues just like Ric and Fender do. And Toyota too, for that matter.

 

[Bass Viking]

This, I would love to have a Rickenbacker but their crappy warranty that starts when the bass was produced and not when was actually sold to the customer stop me to buy one, I dont support that crap, good thing is that John does not need my money and I dont need his basses.

That does seem like a lame warranty, although in practice it may not be that bad. Don't Ricks sell quickly?

 

[Binary1]

Yes, perhaps even more so. We're talking about a precision of fit that comes down to micrometer tolerances. Have you ever installed frets on a fretboard? If so, you know what I'm talking about.

Irrelevant. Did the OP's problem involve frets? We're discussing either a simple yet faulty switch or a wire location issue. Not complicated at all. Certainly not as complicated as a car or iPhone, let alone "even more so".

It's not always about the technological complexity of a specific product. Sometimes it just comes down to the accuracy of production and tolerances, which can sometimes be more difficult than having a machine place and solder components on a circuit board.

It's a simple circuit. Besides, all this is useless discussion anyway; we didn't see the underside of the OP's bass. How many angels can really dance on the head of a pin?

 

[mapleglo]

Yeah, it the dancing angels on the pin issue. From my experience, no amount of discussion will change people's minds anyway, once they're set. I like my Rics, and my Precisions.

Back to practicing

 

[Jeff Scott]

If fret sprout is the only thing you can fault fender for ...MYTH BUSTED!

I can think of a few things regarding the Fenders I used to own, starting with the first I one I got (late '60s Jazz Bass) in the early '70s.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Everyone saying if you really like it you'll fix it, I've got a car you can buy, 93 Cherokee with 300,000 miles. It kinda works, but you're gonna have to work on it/pay for some parts before you can use it.

A friend of mine would , actually, buy that Cherokee, if it wasn't so new.

 

[groucho]

They almost all need it to meet my standard. It's just something I like to do. It's part of the game to me. I enjoy making something that's already good just a bit better.

AMEN....I would take it a step further for better or worse - I cannot ever "leave well enough" alone
Always pushing for that extra bit of performance from every bass I have.

Gotta say the two Rics took the most "twiddling" to get right out of any - Pickup pole adjust, pickup height adjust,
neck adjust, bridge adjust - But others may well have just played them out of the box and been happy.

 

[Gbass75]

Hardly a fair comparison, not defending Rickenbacker, but Rickenbacker is a much bigger operation than Dingwall. You should still expect good customer service, but the owner is not going to answer the phone. Your story does support the fact that issues like these happen to EVERY manufacturer for one reason or the other on a regular basis.

I don't disagree with this... but, would it be so hard for RIC to have a QC hotline? Maybe pay someone to answer phones and do what Mr. Dingwall did? Give this person a 100% green light to take care of business in the same way as the previously described Dingwall experience. I think opinions about RIC's products and services would see a major shift in a very positive direction!

By the way... I nominate Jeff Scott for the position. I haven't read the entire thread yet; but, it looked like some folks were getting bent out of shape about some of Jeff's responses... I promise you, you were reading them wrong if you thought he was being at all condescending. Perhaps these folks were newer to the RIC/TB community?

I no longer own a RIC (truth be told, for many of the reasons being discussed here, and then some). That said, the last one I did own was Jeff's 4001v63. A beautiful instrument that clearly came from a profoundly knowledgeable and dedicated RIC enthusiast. Jeff is an excellent fellow, and I guarantee that anything he would have written here was only done with the best, and most helpful of intentions.

For myself, I've opted to sell ALL my basses, and have one "signature" instrument created by a small builder. Last bass before I die (which hopefully won't be anytime soon). It's currently en route from England; and I'd be willing to bet it comes all that way, out of the box, without a single issue.

And, yes, it may be a hassle to ship to England if there's ever a major problem... but it's guaranteed for life!

Are you listening, Mr. Hall?

 

[electracoyote]

I have only read the first 4 pages or so

As far as new Rics go, most or all of the threads I have seen regarding quality issues are from purchases at MF.

I have not seen one thread regarding an issue on a new Ric from Wildwood or POTR. Is that because they sort out the bad ones and only send out the good ones? If that is the case, why so? Should they not be checked out thoroughly being sent out, regardless of the dealer it will be sent to?

IMO, I would never purchase a Ric online from MF. Yeah you may save a few bucks but it's a crapshoot as to what you get

Agreed. I would never buy any high-dollar instrument from MF, especially here in the States where you have other options. And I know for a fact that Wildwood personally inspects every guitar they sell (I live just up the road), and I suspect that POTR does the same. I think Sweetwater does too, although their 83-Point Inspection or whatever they call it left a lot to be desired on at least one instrument I purchased from them.

I have received shipments of accessories from MF that looked like the shelf puller that day had a bad hangover. Crushed and mangled packaging, etc. And then sometimes UPS does their special thing on top of it. Not being able to inspect your gear before the purchase, and knowing the retailer has not opened the box and inspected your bass, is a serious gamble. Yes, they have a return policy, but that didn't stop this thread and the requisite Ric bashing/blame game from happening.

I have had high price point instruments shipped to my local GC, where the contents are inspected and I don't walk out with the item until I have thoroughly tested it and am 100% satisfied there are no unfortunate issues.

In this case, I don't even know how people can be so certain it's a QC issue, since this could have happened during the significant shipping and handling this bass has experienced.

If you have no choice but to deal with MF, then accept it for the gamble it is.

 

[Rocktometrist]

This kind of thing is a personal judgement of hassle vs. reward. Personally I'd take the 15 minutes to diagnose and likely fix the switch using my advanced screwdriver skills, rather than go through the trouble of repacking and shipping the bass and then waiting who-knows-how-long to have another one shipped to my door. Somebody else might make the personal calculation that shipping it back is less of a hassle than peeking under the hood to see if there is an easy fix (or feel the need to return it as a matter of principle). Not my call if I didn't pay for it. Best of luck to the OP!

 

[Gbass75]

I don't disagree with this... but, would it be so hard for RIC to have a QC hotline? Maybe pay someone to answer phones and do what Mr. Dingwall did? Give this person a 100% green light to take care of business in the same way as the previously described Dingwall experience. I think opinions about RIC's products and services would see a major shift in a very positive direction!

By the way... I nominate Jeff Scott for the position. I haven't read the entire thread yet; but, it looked like some folks were getting bent out of shape about some of Jeff's responses... I promise you, you were reading them wrong if you thought he was being at all condescending. Perhaps these folks were newer to the RIC/TB community?

I no longer own a RIC (truth be told, for many of the reasons being discussed here, and then some). That said, the last one I did own was Jeff's 4001v63. A beautiful instrument that clearly came from a profoundly knowledgeable and dedicated RIC enthusiast. Jeff is an excellent fellow, and I guarantee that anything he would have written here was only done with the best, and most helpful of intentions.

For myself, I've opted to sell ALL my basses, and have one "signature" instrument created by a small builder. Last bass before I die (which hopefully won't be anytime soon). It's currently en route from England; and I'd be willing to bet it comes all that way, out of the box, without a single issue.

And, yes, it may be a hassle to ship to England if there's ever a major problem... but it's guaranteed for life!

Are you listening, Mr. Hall?

Oh... I forgot... The 4001v63 was my second RIC. The first was a 4003 I toured with for a few years. Sounded great in the mix... got lots of great feedback about its sound... Never had an issue. It was likely built in or around 1996... Purchased new from a shop called Victor's House of Music, in Ridgewood, NJ. I parted with it because I realized I was more a fan of the Precision Bass sound, form and function.

I don't love a RIC in my hands, but deeply appreciate them in the hands of others.

Also, were I to buy one today... PicOfTheRics, all the way.

 

[stacker]

I was in on that thread from the beginning, and I can tell you there was way more to it than John Hall exiting the RRF after a minor criticism. The threads OP had gone to GC and bought a new 4001S GC Special at $3200. A latch on the case was broken, and the bridge saddles weren't notched exactly in the center, resulting in the strings not being directly over the center of each pickup pole. That's all it was. Instead of having the case replaced under warranty, or exchanging the bass, he got his money back, then started the thread about it. Things just escalated from there with some people piling on RIC over these two issues, even though the OP had no pics to back up the second issue. Some even criticised the particular model for not having all the vintage features they wanted, and that it was too expensive. This in spite of the fact that RIC built the exact special model GC requested, which GC set the price on with NO discounting at all. The OP never gave RIC the option of honoring their warranty. He just started a thread to slam the company about a bass he thought was overpriced. That so many jumped in without any pics from a new member to criticize the company in post after post eventually made John Hall decide his participation wasn't appreciated, so he left. Then the OP went over to the RIC corporate forum and tried to start the same thread where he didn't find a particularly warm reception.

That may well be but I still stand by my statement: John Hall is not the right CEO for RIC. I have seen how that man has washed like a rash all over the internet with his nasty attitude for the past 16 years that I've been on line. I don't care what John Hall did for RIC back in '84 or whenever but I do know this: he has outlived his tenure as CEO of that company. I look forward to him standing down and await Ben taking the mantle. Someone needs to turn that company around.

 

[stacker]

Never cared for Rics. Without Geddy and Chris Squier- I honestly think they'd be out of business COMPLETELY.

1899.99 for the 4003SW
1699.99 for the 4003S
2099.99 for the 4004 Loredo
2299.99 for the 4004 cii Cheyenne

All at Guitar center when they email you the price. I don't know where that 2615 came from.

Scotland, fella!! Unless you have GuitarGuitar over there, like I stated in my post!

 

[JLY]

I have always wondered if MF gets some of the rejects that other stores returned to Ric ?

 

[swamp2]

I have always wondered if MF gets some of the rejects that other stores returned to Ric ?

Guys, before ripping on me for buying from MF, please refer to my initial post, wherein I stated...

Shoot arrows at me for buying from MF where they don't do any setup or checkout if you like. That's not the point. Since they do nothing with the instrument there (and no evidence of any shipping damage), it pretty much says this major, easily detectable defect left the factory like that. How can this be allowed to happen???

Ok? I've bought thousands of $ of stuff from MF. It's always turned out ok in the end. I know what I'm doing. They made it easy to get to a price on the instrument where I could rationalize buying it. The difference between buying it locally at the shop where I originally saw it and fell in love (and they sold before I could move on it, and had no others in stock...) was better part of a couple hundred bucks. I'll put up with a little inconvenience for that. I didn't buy it at the local stores price (admittedly including NYS sales tax) and I probably never would have.

Yes, I know if I'd paid more from a shop that actually checks them out prior to shipping, this may not have happened. But it still may have, if there's really a degree of fragility in shipping. Whatever.

I still want my Ric. I don't hate the company, and I don't think they're evil. I just think the evidence says they could do a better job with product QC and out of box quality, a comment which applies to other manufacturers as well. This is the easy stuff to fix, why not do it????

 

[electracoyote]

I have always wondered if MF gets some of the rejects that other stores returned to Ric ?

...or how many auditions and trial runs that have been shipped and returned to MF, maybe even multiple times.

 

[Bass Viking]

Yeh? Over here, I spotted the new 4003 series in GuitarGuitar for US$2615.

Here in Canada, Long and McQuade is selling the 4003 for $2199. Add 13% sales tax and you're looking at almost 2500 Canadian $$. I saw a walnut Rick at my local L&M in November. If memory serves me right it was just under $2000 not including tax.