Rick 4003SW - US quality rant...

[Bass Viking]

This kind of thing is a personal judgement of hassle vs. reward. Personally I'd take the 15 minutes to diagnose and likely fix the switch using my advanced screwdriver skills, rather than go through the trouble of repacking and shipping the bass and then waiting who-knows-how-long to have another one shipped to my door. Somebody else might make the personal calculation that shipping it back is less of a hassle than peeking under the hood to see if there is an easy fix (or feel the need to return it as a matter of principle). Not my call if I didn't pay for it. Best of luck to the OP!

+1. It may be an easy fix, if you know the secret. On the other hand, you shouldn't have to search the internet for the fix or risk possibly voiding a warranty by poking around in there. It's definitely a judgement call.

Case in point: I purchased a Sadowsky strap some years ago. I ordered the longest one. It was actually too long. Rather than send it back, I just tied a knot in it to make it shorter.

 

[Deleted member 264575]

Here in Canada, Long and McQuade is selling the 4003 for $2199. Add 13% sales tax and you're looking at almost 2500 Canadian $$. I saw a walnut Rick at my local L&M in November. If memory serves me right it was just under $2000 not including tax.

Also, it's $2775 for a 4004Cii here, which is pretty much $4K American. Oh Canada indeed! .

I worked as a Quality Engineer for many large companies and have lots of experience dealing with quality issues. Most of the time I found corporations don't care much about quality (to their determent...usually). It's the first department to get cut (I had more than one boss tell me Quality Assurance was a "non-value added" department. Yeah, right). Some corporations really care a lot about quality. Some customers care a lot about the quality of products they receive and some don't. I had many issues on my Rick, but I let them slide because hey, I got a Rick! (with a horrible finish, bad wiring, etc.) I guess, if you expect perfect, you do your research, avoid companies that don't care much about quality, test the unit yourself before buying and lastly, try to remember it's an imperfect world. Maybe the switch went bad after it was tested and left the factory? Screws fall out all the time.



Just my $.02 (Canadian, that's about $.000002 anywhere else).

 

[swamp2]

Also, it's $2775 for a 4004Cii here, which is pretty much $4K American. Oh Canada indeed! .

I worked as a Quality Engineer for many large companies and have lots of experience dealing with quality issues. Most of the time I found corporations don't care much about quality (to their determent...usually). It's the first department to get cut (I had more than one boss tell me Quality Assurance was a "non-value added" department. Yeah, right). Some corporations really care a lot about quality. Some customers care a lot about the quality of products they receive and some don't. I had many issues on my Rick, but I let them slide because hey, I got a Rick! (with a horrible finish, bad wiring, etc.) I guess, if you expect perfect, you do your research, avoid companies that don't care much about quality, test the unit yourself before buying and lastly, try to remember it's an imperfect world. Maybe the switch went bad after it was tested and left the factory? Screws fall out all the time.



Just my $.02 (Canadian, that's about $.000002 anywhere else).

I think there's a BIG difference between expecting perfect, and expecting to receive basic functionality out of the box. I was indeed expecting the latter. I don't think that's unreasonable or should be less than a minimum threshold expectation for any product from any manufacturer.

 

[Killer Canary]

Just my $.02 (Canadian, that's about $.000002 anywhere else).

Hilarious!

 

[CGremlin]

For example, I frequently see people get bent out of shape because sometimes the strings aren't 100% directly over the pole pieces on a Rick. You know what? I just checked, and the strings aren't 100% directly over the pole peices on *any* guitar that I own, including my Fender Jazz (which, by the way, was *not* that much cheaper than my Rick.)

My 4003W has the strings centered on the pole pieces on the neck pickup, and a hair off-center on the bridge pickup. I can see where the saddles weren't cut quite where they should be, but it's not anything that adversely affects the sound and doesn't bother me. I did have to straighten the bobbin on the plate in order to get the Triple Bezel to fit properly, but that was a five-minute tweak. My MP Jazz V has the strings centered between them pretty much perfectly. Everything else I have has either shrouded pickups, soapbars, or blades. (Edit - except for my Stingray! How did I forget that?! Strings/pole pieces are perfect on it.)

Nothing else on my Rick looks out of place, and yeah, most other instruments I've seen with exposed pole pieces aren't quite centered either, so it's not something that's ever really bothered me.

 

[blue4]

OP, I'd have sent it back too. Another dealer, perhaps a reimbursement for repair or a store credit for work you do yourself could have happened. But it's MF. When I use the big guys like MF or Amazon I just send any defective product straight back. You're never going to deal with the same guy or get the same answer, so sending it back is the right thing.

As far as replacing a switch, on a Squier or Epiphone I would definitely. You get one with a straight neck, everything else good, you just fix the little electrical issue. A bass that cost thousands, it gets returned. No peeking under the hood, nothing. Myself, unless I'm just dying for that particular model, I'd probably look around for other options before reordering another. In my mind, paying thousands is supposed to get me above issues like that.
I don't blame you one bit. That's a lot of money to pay for something to have an issue.

 

[JLY]

Guys, before ripping on me for buying from MF, please refer to my initial post, wherein I stated...

Shoot arrows at me for buying from MF where they don't do any setup or checkout if you like. That's not the point. Since they do nothing with the instrument there (and no evidence of any shipping damage), it pretty much says this major, easily detectable defect left the factory like that. How can this be allowed to happen???

Ok? I've bought thousands of $ of stuff from MF. It's always turned out ok in the end. I know what I'm doing. They made it easy to get to a price on the instrument where I could rationalize buying it. The difference between buying it locally at the shop where I originally saw it and fell in love (and they sold before I could move on it, and had no others in stock...) was better part of a couple hundred bucks. I'll put up with a little inconvenience for that. I didn't buy it at the local stores price (admittedly including NYS sales tax) and I probably never would have.

Yes, I know if I'd paid more from a shop that actually checks them out prior to shipping, this may not have happened. But it still may have, if there's really a degree of fragility in shipping. Whatever.

I still want my Ric. I don't hate the company, and I don't think they're evil. I just think the evidence says they could do a better job with product QC and out of box quality, a comment which applies to other manufacturers as well. This is the easy stuff to fix, why not do it????

Sorry if you took it that way
No ripping meant!
I purchased a lot if gear from them myself.

 

[swamp2]

Ok, a bit of a mea culpa...

When I started this thread, i wrote...

My wife bought a Brother PE770 embroidery machine. Amazing - has a whole bunch of embedded patterns, user friendly interface, precision x-y table movement, automatic needle threading. Really fun to watch. Probably 4 orders of magnitude more technologically and functionally sophisiticated than my bass. It was less than half the cost of the bass and worked flawlessly out of the box.

Why does a sophisticated machine from the far east work perfectly, and a storied "reputable" US manufacturer can't even get a 3 way switch right???

Well, I get a text from my very depressed wife today that her embroidery machine died. Admittedly, she's been using it heavily since delivery last Wednesday - it wasn't an "out of box" failure, but still...

She called Brother support - they told her to take it to a local service center, to which I replied "no, let Amazon know it is coming back and you want a replacement".

It is being shipped back to Amazon (prepaid mailer, of course).

There is a depressing element of sameness to this saga. I guess we weren't intended to get the toys we thought we were entitled to.

BTW, my returned defective Ric is supposed to show up at MF tomorrow - a replacement will presumably be shipped afterward.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Also, it's $2775 for a 4004Cii here, which is pretty much $4K American. Oh Canada indeed! .

I worked as a Quality Engineer for many large companies and have lots of experience dealing with quality issues. Most of the time I found corporations don't care much about quality (to their determent...usually). It's the first department to get cut (I had more than one boss tell me Quality Assurance was a "non-value added" department. Yeah, right). Some corporations really care a lot about quality. Some customers care a lot about the quality of products they receive and some don't. I had many issues on my Rick, but I let them slide because hey, I got a Rick! (with a horrible finish, bad wiring, etc.) I guess, if you expect perfect, you do your research, avoid companies that don't care much about quality, test the unit yourself before buying and lastly, try to remember it's an imperfect world. Maybe the switch went bad after it was tested and left the factory? Screws fall out all the time.



Just my $.02 (Canadian, that's about $.000002 anywhere else).

Sorry buddy, cash transaction. Your two cents rounds down to nothing.

 

[swamp2]

Well, it seemed like this thread never came to a wrap up, so figured I'd do so now. In the end, MF was not very definitive about a replacement for the one I'd returned. Their new order and return processing appear completely unlinked and I got frustrated. As soon as my defective Rick showed up at MF as returned by UPS, I gave it a day - and was expecting an immediate "your replacement has shipped, here's the tracking number". Nope. I called within a day or 2, and the only status I could get was "well they're busy in returns, maybe it'll ship in a week...". After calling back every few days and not getting better status, I just told them I wanted a refund.

All this going on while my wifes embroidery machine return to Amazon went like this - "here's a prepaid shipping label, your replacement is on the way, if your return gets back to us within 30 days, we won't charge you anything". She got her replacement, and it's been working fine ever since....

But I digress... I was a bit disillusioned about the Rick experience, but still wanted one and kept looking on line - but more at sources that had a good reputation for specializing in them... Finally got around to ordering the last 4003sw Wildwood had in stock last week (they said they might not have anymore for 2-3 months) and it came yesterday. I'm very happy with the instrument, the as delivered quality, the dealer experience, and the overall value. It was a lot of money by my standards (just a little bit more than MF) but... if you want a Rick, you don't have many choices other than to pay... but I can see why they cost what they do. It's a unique, quality instrument that is a lot more interesting than a lot of others you could spend as much on. It's a joy to play, to touch and to look at.

Anyway, I'm not bashing MF - I've ordered a lot from them and will continue to do so - but if I ever need/want to order a relatively expensive instrument again - I'll bypass them and pick a store (online or otherwise) that shows me pix of the specific instrument, gives me the specs, and checks it out/sets up before shipping. I can't say enough about the folks at Wildwood - highly recommended shop -a painless, perfect transaction.

With that said, the problem I initially had that started this thread shouldn't have happened - I suspect Rick could be doing a better job on "as shipped" quality based on the comments in this thread - although you wouldn't suspect that based on the one I just received. Had I purchased it originally from Wildwood or a similar shop, I'm sure it would have been fixed before it was shipped and I would have been oblivious to any "out of box" quality issues.

A happy end to the story, in any case.

 

[Aceonbass]

As I remember, the initial problem with your bass had something to do with the pickup selector switch. I order these Switchcraft switches in small quantities to build the harnesses I build for Ricks. I find them to often have issues with this preloading of the contacts, so I have to tweak them to make sure they'll work properly once installed. This and the mono switching output jack binding up in its right cavity, are the two biggest problems people complain about with Rick electronics. They're easy enough problems to deal with if you know what to look for, but can be maddening if you don't.

 

[CGremlin]

As I remember, the initial problem with your bass had something to do with the pickup selector switch. I order these Switchcraft switches in small quantities to build the harnesses I build for Ricks. I find them to often have issues with this preloading of the contacts, so I have to tweak them to make sure they'll work properly once installed. This and the mono switching output jack binding up in its right cavity, are the two biggest problems people complain about with Rick electronics. They're easy enough problems to deal with if you know what to look for, but can be maddening if you don't.

Handy tip. Thanks!

 

[Skybone]

Swamp2, did you get your refund then?

 

[12stringbassist]

I know a guy who actually sent three new Rics back due to one pickup not working at all. He came round to mine in a state of shock with his fourth one, saying how can this be? I have Rics and plugged it in my amp and it worked immediately. I plugged into the jack socket nearest to the strap button. He didn't.

What baffles me is that the store kept replacing the basses instead of saying they worked fine.

Ric QC can be extremely spotty, arguably the same as anyone else who mass produces.
BUT... for a bass at that price to come out of the door less than functional is plain wrong.

 

[12stringbassist]

My wife bought a Brother PE770 embroidery machine. Amazing - has a whole bunch of embedded patterns, user friendly interface, precision x-y table movement, automatic needle threading. Really fun to watch. Probably 4 orders of magnitude more technologically and functionally sophisiticated than my bass. It was less than half the cost of the bass and worked flawlessly out of the box.

Obviously embroidery is the way forward for you!!

 

[Bass Viking]

I know a guy who actually sent three new Rics back due to one pickup not working at all. He came round to mine in a state of shock with his fourth one, saying how can this be? I have Rics and plugged it in my amp and it worked immediately. I plugged into the jack socket nearest to the strap button. He didn't.

What baffles me is that the store kept replacing the basses instead of saying they worked fine.

Ric QC can be extremely spotty, arguably the same as anyone else who mass produces.
BUT... for a bass at that price to come out of the door less than functional is plain wrong.

I'm confused (not very familiar with Rics). There are 2 jacks on the bass and he was using the wrong one? What does the other jack do?

 

[sissy kathy]

I'm confused (not very familiar with Rics). There are 2 jacks on the bass and he was using the wrong one? What does the other jack do?

....confuses some and convinces others the instrument is defective.

 

[Paul Boyer]

There are two outputs on the 4003 bass (not on the 4003S or the 4004 models). One is a standard output and the other is the "Rick-O-Sound" output. This jack separates the signals of the two pickups which go through a "stereo" cord (a single cord that has two channels). This allows the bass pickup to be treated separately in one amp (or channel) and the treble pickup through another. When a non-stereo cord is plugged into the Rick-O-Sound output, only the treble pickup signal is transmitted, making is seem that the bass pickup is dead. Happens a lot with the unknowing or the careless.

 

[CGremlin]

Was going to post about the Rick-O-Sound jack, but a couple of folks beat me to it. IIRC, the 4003S only has a single output jack though.

Edit: I see Paul covered that already. I'll just show myself out, thanks.

 

[Bass Viking]

There are two outputs on the 4003 bass (not on the 4003S or the 4004 models). One is a standard output and the other is the "Rick-O-Sound" output. This jack separates the signals of the two pickups which go through a "stereo" cord (a single cord that has two channels). This allows the bass pickup to be treated separately in one amp (or channel) and the treble pickup through another. When a non-stereo cord is plugged into the Rick-O-Sound output, only the treble pickup signal is transmitted, making is seem that the bass pickup is dead. Happens a lot with the unknowing or the careless.

Thanks for the explanation. Major fail on the part of the guy who returned 3 Rics!