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Rickenbacker 4001... tone-monster it isn't...

#41
Kink Rimson said:
It's a bit unfair to continually refer to the capacitor as 'tone-sucking' - this is only the case if your defenition of tone is purely based on low end. The capacitor undeniably alters the tone by removing a lot of bass frequencies, but when the bass is running with both pickups on full this tonal change is one of the biggest factors in producing the classic Rick clank and growl - if you're after that classic Geddy Lee or Roger Glover Rick tone you ain't gonna get it without the cap in place.
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I totally agree with this!

After reading this thread, I convinced myself to try taking out the cap. I was going to buy a push/pull and do that mod, but it sounded like I should just try taking it out first; maybe i'd like what I heard. as it turns out, I totally prefer the tone with the cap in place; it is definitely what i consider to be 'the' Rick sound. Not to say that it sounded bad with the cap out, because it didn't. the depth of the bass like that is impressive, and great for the reggae/funk band i play in. But I put the cap back in and it's definitely my preferred sound; that classic punch and growl.

Now i'm convinced more than ever that I need to purchase the push/pull knob, because then I can have my Rush... err... cake, and eat it too!

Also, that's one sweet username.
 
#42
Coolhandjjl said:
Man, give it a rest, Jeff.

Don't you think it's time to bury the hatchet and move on? :rollno:

Carrying a resentment is like taking the rat poison yourself hoping the other person dies.
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Actually it is not me resenting them ... they resent a lot of their own members and ban them ... Or should I say former members ...
 
#43
Kink Rimson said:
It's a bit unfair to continually refer to the capacitor as 'tone-sucking' - this is only the case if your defenition of tone is purely based on low end. The capacitor undeniably alters the tone by removing a lot of bass frequencies, but when the bass is running with both pickups on full this tonal change is one of the biggest factors in producing the classic Rick clank and growl - if you're after that classic Geddy Lee or Roger Glover Rick tone you ain't gonna get it without the cap in place.
Click to expand...

Ya "tone-sucking" is subjective ... but most people hear a bass with the bass removed will think it sounds bad. My wife worked in a lot of bands as a keyboard player and a singer. She has a real fondness for bass lines and bass players. So one day I was playing a rick with the push pull circuit. I was playing with the capacitor engaged and she happened to walk by and she said what's wrong with that bass, it sounds bad. So my opinion most people would agree that the .0047 capacitor would make the bass sound worse and not better.

I actually owned and played a 1960s 4001 for 30 years. I really grew to hate the old weak pickups and the tone sucking capcitor. That bass really really really sounded a lot better when I put in modern 4003 pickups and removed the capacitor. But that is my opinion.
 
#44
This is my take on Ricks.
I prefer the 4003 pick ups over the 4001.Having had both a midnight blue 4001 and now my 99 4003 with the vintage tone circuit.The hi-gain pick ups are an improvement to me.
People forget that they are single coils that are very dynamic to player input.They will make you sound good but will punish you for poor technique.
 
#45
Ric5 said:
Actually it is not me resenting them ... they resent a lot of their own members and ban them ... Or should I say former members ...
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Banning a discussion group member has nothing to do with a resentment. To them, it is not an issue, as they have plenty of things of their own topics to discuss. They have moved on.

However, here on TB, I keep reading your posts about John Hall this and John Hall that, Rickenbacker International Corporation this and Rickenbacker International Corporation that, Rick Resource Forum this and Rick Resource Forum that....

Another way to look at a resentment is to let someone live rent free in your head. Boy, you sure keep bringing it up. You seem to spend a lot of time thinking about them. The fact that it is you that keeps bringing it up means the problem is with you.

TB members don't need you to to point out Rick Resource Forum banned member information, nor calling attention to John Hall's business practices, etc., etc. Let the members here experience life on life's terms, not yours.
 
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#46
Coolhandjjl said:
Banning a discussion group member has nothing to do with a resentment. To them, it is not an issue, as they have plenty of things of their own topics to discuss. They have moved on.

However, here on TB, I keep reading your posts about John Hall this and John Hall that, Rickenbacker International Corporation this and Rickenbacker International Corporation that, Rick Resource Forum this and Rick Resource Forum that....

Another way to look at a resentment is to let someone live rent free in your head. Boy, you sure keep bringing it up. You seem to spend a lot of time thinking about them. The fact that it is you that keeps bringing it up means the problem is with you.

TB members don't need you to to point out Rick Resource Forum banned member information, nor calling attention to John Hall's business practices, etc., etc. Let the members here experience life on life's terms, not yours.
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I simply state some facts ... I don't badmouth that forum or Rickenbacker ...

You see to me a Rickenbacker is a musical instrument ... but to some it becomes a religious cult and they must defend their cult from all detractors. Man that is just nuts.

If you read my posts I will sometimes complain that Rickenbacker does not make a 5 string bass. But I also complain about certain aspects of Fenders basses. I also quite often bring up how so many Gibson basses suffer from neck dive, and how Schecter basses have crappy preamps, etc. But you know all the crap seems to just come from the Rickenbacker cult members. It is ok if I complain about a Warwick or a musicman, but if I say something about a Rickenbacker then surley someone will give me crap. It never fails. And it is quite strange how the RRF has such a long list of banned former members who really like Rickenbacker instruments.

John Hall is a successful businessman who runs a successful company. He does not need a bunch of fan-boys defending him all of the time. When people do it just looks strange. I have to ask why.
 
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#48
Kink Rimson said:
It's a bit unfair to continually refer to the capacitor as 'tone-sucking' - this is only the case if your defenition of tone is purely based on low end. The capacitor undeniably alters the tone by removing a lot of bass frequencies, but when the bass is running with both pickups on full this tonal change is one of the biggest factors in producing the classic Rick clank and growl - if you're after that classic Geddy Lee or Roger Glover Rick tone you ain't gonna get it without the cap in place.
Click to expand...

+1!
 
#49
Actually I can get the classic Ric tone without the cap. Anyone else can as well. Just work with your EQ.

Modern amps and modern effects have turned the .0047 capacitor in an anachronism. But then again the pickup cover, the bridge tailpiece assemby, the mechanical mute, are all Rickenbacker anachronisms.
 
#51
When it comes to Rickenbacker tone a lot of people don't know that Chris Squire's work with Yes on the Rickenbacker bass was mostly done with just the neck pickup soloed, as was a lot of McCartney's work with the Rickenbacker when he was with the Beatles.

When Chris Squire's Rick came back to Rickenbacker for work the bridge pickup was actually not hooked up. The horseshoe had actually degaussed. Later he had the horseshoe pickup reguassed and Chris hated the sound of it. Paul McCartney's Ric also had the horseshoe pickup degauss, and when it was back at Rickenbacker it got replaced with a high gain wound to similar specs as the modern 4003 high gain pickup. This is the Rickenbacker that he used for most of his work with Wings.

So most of what you hear with McCartney and Squire playing the Rickenbacker you are not hearing the .0047 capacitor.

Geddy Lee about 1980 started playing the jazz bass and other basses more because of the lack of low end on the Rickenbacker. Perhaps if he were to remove the capacitor he might like the Rick more.

But I know some people love that little capacitor. That is great. But I still remember the first time I played a Ric that didn't have that capacitor. YA Baby! that is the tone I like!
 
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#52
I sometimes criticize Rickenbacker ... but sometimes I praise them ...

For instance I admire Rickenbacker and Gibson for actually manufacturing musical instruments in the USA. When quite often the Federal, State, and local governments these days can be business unfriendly.
 
#53
Ric5 said:
Actually I can get the classic Ric tone without the cap. Anyone else can as well. Just work with your EQ.
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1. That's not as easy as flicking a switch.
2. The cap works best by changing how the pickups "talk" to each other by changing the bridge pickup's phase by 90 degrees. This fundamentally changes how the pickups interact and the change in EQ is far too complex to mimic exactly.

I think you have consistently ignored that a lot of people use this pickup with the neck pickup to create a big-sounding mono signal. It's not like anyone is suggesting you run the bridge pickup by itself except for rare circumstances. When you run both together, the overall sound is bigger with the cap than without it.
 
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#54
I really respect the capacitor lovers opinion ...

But I played this bass here for 30 years and grew to hate the capacitor.

jb-73.jpg


And Geddy can get his Rick tone from his jazz bass ... listen to moving pictures ... it is half jazz and half Ric and it is hard to tell which is which.
 
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#55
Ric5 said:
When it comes to Rickenbacker tone a lot of people don't know that Chris Squire's work with Yes on the Rickenbacker bass was mostly done with just the neck pickup soloed, as was a lot of McCartney's work with the Rickenbacker when he was with the Beatles.

When Chris Squire's Rick came back to Rickenbacker for work the bridge pickup was actually not hooked up. The horseshoe had actually degaussed. Later he had the horseshoe pickup reguassed and Chris hated the sound of it. Paul McCartney's Ric also had the horseshoe pickup degauss, and when it was back at Rickenbacker it got replaced with a high gain wound to similar specs as the modern 4003 high gain pickup. This is the Rickenbacker that he used for most of his work with Wings.

So most of what you hear with McCartney and Squire playing the Rickenbacker you are not hearing the .0047 capacitor.

Geddy Lee about 1980 started playing the jazz bass and other basses more because of the lack of low end on the Rickenbacker. Perhaps if he were to remove the capacitor he might like the Rick more.

But I know some people love that little capacitor. That is great. But I still remember the first time I played a Ric that didn't have that capacitor. YA Baby! that is the tone I like!
Click to expand...

I don't know, for me The sound from Squire's Rick sound more like my 4003 on vintage mode then on a modern mode. for me it is easier to have both pups on full with bridge pup on vintage mode and cut a bit of the tone on that pup. Neck pup usually on full volume and open one control.

One thing I'm sure the 4003 is a tone monster.
 
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#58
Ric5 said:
I really respect the capacitor lovers opinion ...

But I played this bass here for 30 years and grew to hate the capacitor.
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99% of the time I'm with you, it's better without the cap. I actually kind of like that filtered sound, similar to what people mean when they say a Jazz Bass sounds scooped. But the cap does some things that just can't be replicated by other methods IMO, so it's best to leave room for it in the grand scheme at least by my way of thinking.

johnk_10 said:
i personally don't care for the cap with the bridge pickup solo'd, but it's my favorite position when using both pickups. i never use both pickups on without it, so i guess it just depends what tone you're going for.
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I have used the cap on the soloed bridge pickup (with a significant gain boost at the preamp) for a handful of busy jazz gigs I played a few years ago and that went over well--kind of a burpy, driving sound. But otherwise I would never think of using the cap by itself. The main reason I thought of it that time was because the room was so resonant with my bass's low end that it felt like I was going to bring the house down even at a normal volume.
 
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#59
Ric5 said:
I really respect the capacitor lovers opinion ...

But I played this bass here for 30 years and grew to hate the capacitor.

And Geddy can get his Rick tone from his jazz bass ... listen to moving pictures ... it is half jazz and half Ric and it is hard to tell which is which.
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He gets close, or at least on Moving Pictures these 2 basses were damn close. But today his jazz sound Is not the same as earlier. I like both.

One guy which really have a great Ric tone AND other tones out of a Ric is Dave Meros of Spock's Beard. But his Ric is heavily modded with (back then) 2 Ric pups and 2 juzz pups.

Btw, great cape, almost like Squire! :)
 

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