Rickenbacker: Detecting warp/hump/s-curve etc

[backer7618]

I have a suspicion that my 2018 Rickenbacker may have a a hump or s-curve, or possibly a high fret....
what methods are there to diagnose an issue like this? Thanks.

 

[sissy kathy]

For an 'S' or hump, do you have a long straight edge? Lay it of the fret board and check clearences along its length. For a high fret use a fret rocker, a straight edge that will span only three frets. If it will rock, the middle fret is high, or one of the others is low, so you need to check more that just the suspicious fret.
: : . :.: ;
1234567
In the above example notice the rocker will rock when placed over frets 1-3, 3-5, and 5-7. Notice it won't rock over 2-4, or over 4-6.

 

[backer7618]

Thanks. However, I'm pretty certain I have an S-curve going on here. It's actually pretty obvious when sighting down the side of the neck from the bridge. Just awful. It's still less than a year old, so I may push this to Ric as a warranty issue (had problems from the beginning)... won't count on them doing anything about it, though.

 

[sissy kathy]

Me neither;
Warranty Information

 

[Killed_by_Death]

This little caveat of their warranty pretty much cuts them loose on every occasion, "exposure to environmental extremes".
It would be nice if RIC did something about it, but I think they'll just tell you to get the frets leveled.

 

[backer7618]

Still not confident that I've diagnosed the issue properly. I don't really trust my own eyes on this one. I've taken it to a luthier, but he didn't notice anything at the time. He worked on the nut a bit to make sure the slots were at the correct height (slightly on the higher side). I would also like to point out that I have tried everything else in therms of diagnostics. This includes strings, nut height, relief, bridge height, hardware tightness, saddle noise, saddle position, witness points and more. Please keep this in mind when viewing the following video.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Still not confident that I've diagnosed the issue properly. I don't really trust my own eyes on this one. I've taken it to a luthier, but he didn't notice anything at the time. He worked on the nut a bit to make sure the slots were at the correct height (slightly on the higher side). I would also like to point out that I have tried everything else in therms of diagnostics. This includes strings, nut height, relief, bridge height, hardware tightness, saddle noise, saddle position, witness points and more. Please keep this in mind when viewing the following video.

It is an electric instrument, you should always check for buzz through an amp otherwise you might be digging in to compensate for volume.

Yes, there is definitely buzz in the video but if a lutheir, who had his hands on the instrument, gave the instrument a setup, and actually checked if the frets were level says the neck is good, it might be the chair-to-bass-interface. You could always get a second opinion on the neck.

That being said, it seems like you have buzz on the open A which would make me lean toward a setup issue or a nut issue. See if muting the strings behind where you fret (between your finger and the nut) stops any of the buzz with doublestops. If so, it is a nut issue (too wide) but that likely won't solve all of your buzzing. What kind of relief and string height do you have?

 

[Slater]

The video gives some idea of what's happening, but I believe playing chromatic notes up and down the neck would be a better demonstration of where the problem(s) begin and end. Ultimately, I think the issue(s) require hands/eyes-on attention. A diagnosis over the internet will only result in educated guesses (which could potentially be correct). You might try reaching out to reputable Ric dealers to see if they can recommend a tech that specializes in Rickenbacker instruments.

 

[backer7618]

I have my doubts that this is a nut issue... at least in terms of height. I've tried putting a piece of paper on the slot under the string, and this doesn't help. I've also placed a capo on the first fret and the buzzing is the same.
Also, I'm not digging in there as hard as you might think.
I've varied the string height which generally yields the same results.
Now, adding a great deal of relief has helped the issue, but not entirely. I'm trying to avoid the whole "a Ric is designed to have a dead flat neck" thing, but I don't think .012 is where it should be. Again, this doesn't get rid of the problem... just helps a bit.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

I know this is going to sound silly and I already regret typing this, but have you tried playing the bass while you are leaning forward? Actually having the bass tilted forward.
I would be interested in your results.
Fishheadjoe

(Again, probably a silly suggestion!)

 

[GIBrat51]

When I got these two (couple of years apart), I did what I always do - let them sit out on a stand or about a month, to acclimate to life out here in the Mojave Desert, after life in the Midwest. After new strings and a set up, both of them buzzed like a bee hive. In both cases, it turned out to be loose screws - mainly in the bridge/tailpiece. But, pretty much every other screw (and nut) was looser than they should have been. And, Ricks have been known to have rattly/buzzing saddle issues; have you checked them, too?

 

[backer7618]

Some of the chorded-note buzzing decreased a bit when I leaned forward. Some of the rattle's still there though.

None of the hardware is loose. That's one of the first things I checked.

I think the reality is that I just got one with a week neck. Bad luck of the draw. I may still pursue the warranty option... worth an ask I think.

What I'll most likely end up doing is just add a great deal of relief until it's basically set up to fender specs (about .012 to .014). Hopefully I can get the action low enough to where I'm comfortable. A lighter touch will probably side step the A string rattle, but the chorded notes don't seem to be effected by a light touch. I may replace the bridge with a hipshot, if I feel motivated to do so. It'll at least give me more adjustment options. We'll see.

If all that doesn't work out, I'll get the frets leveled. That should help make the bass playable. Down the line, when it's time to refret, I can have the fretboard either re-leveled or, if I want to get extreme, get a luthier who knows what they're doing replace the board entirely.

Ultimately, I think I'll just have to get over it. Yes, I paid too much for me to feel good about a new bass that has such an extreme issue, but it'll still make sounds. That's what it's there fore after all.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Let's see/hear a video of you playing the bass through an amp. Personally, I find it strange to come up with a valid diagnosis from just the "acoustic" unamplified sound.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

Some of the chorded-note buzzing decreased a bit when I leaned forward. Some of the rattle's still there though.

None of the hardware is loose. That's one of the first things I checked.

I think the reality is that I just got one with a week neck. Bad luck of the draw. I may still pursue the warranty option... worth an ask I think.

What I'll most likely end up doing is just add a great deal of relief until it's basically set up to fender specs (about .012 to .014). Hopefully I can get the action low enough to where I'm comfortable. A lighter touch will probably side step the A string rattle, but the chorded notes don't seem to be effected by a light touch. I may replace the bridge with a hipshot, if I feel motivated to do so. It'll at least give me more adjustment options. We'll see.

If all that doesn't work out, I'll get the frets leveled. That should help make the bass playable. Down the line, when it's time to refret, I can have the fretboard either re-leveled or, if I want to get extreme, get a luthier who knows what they're doing replace the board entirely.

Ultimately, I think I'll just have to get over it. Yes, I paid too much for me to feel good about a new bass that has such an extreme issue, but it'll still make sounds. That's what it's there fore after all.

Ok, so you get a little less buzz playing the bass while leaning forward. Do you get even more buzz if you lean back? Yes, there is a method to my madness!
I had a RIC that exhibited the same kind of issues as you have described. It spent the first three months of ownership, with the truss rod cover off the bass, as I was taking it off on a daily basis. I took the bass to one of Toronto's most highly regarded repair shops, "The Twelfth Fret". these are the same guys that did work on Rush's instruments throughout the 70's and they are still very much in business. After half and hour of tweaking and measuring the bass, their Sr. Tech suggested that the neck blank was not cut properly, before the finger board was installed. Couple that with a spaghetti neck blank and the bass would never be able to be set up and hold place.
I put the bass on CL and it sold in a few days to a guy who is not a player, but wanted one to hang it on the wall in his basement!
I truly hope that your bass can be made whole.
Fishheadjoe

 

[backer7618]

Just wanted to provide an unsolicited update/followup to this issue. At the moment, I seem to have subdued the rattling and "back buzzing" for the most part by using higher tension strings (GHS Pressurewound Medium-Light)
and a set up to relief specs that you would typically associate with your average jazz/p bass. In this case, ~0.012 on the bass side and ~0.010 on the treble. The nut slot hights are just a few thousands each... about average. I can get the action reasonably low, so I'm pleased about that. The A string doesn't rattle unless I dig in pretty hard. The back buzz from those chorded notes doesn't occur.

I don't think I can say that the issue by any means solved. All the crazy rattles and buzzing behind the chorded notes occurs once again if I capo the 1st fret (not like I'd ever have to actually do that practically). Looking down the neck, I think the S-curve is pretty obvious with a hump around the 5, 6, and 7th frets with a slight upward pitch at the end of the neck. Either that or the frets are just horribly off level and that's tricking my eyes.

Getting the guitar to intonate properly has been impossible as the E and A strings always come up flat despite the fact that the bridge saddles are as far forward as they can go. I made sure the witness points on all strings were set properly at the bridge and at the nut. This issue could be completely unrelated, though.

One more thing... I noticed, especially on the A string, that some of the tuning peg posts are leaning forward and the bushings seem to pop out a bit. I'm not sure if this is a typical phenomenon, but to me, it seems like the peg holes were drilled too large. Again, this might not have any effect on the issues I've mentioned above.

Anyway, as I said before, the bass is set up to be playable and that's all that matters. The sound coming through the amp is just as you would expect. Probably won't pursue the matter much further.