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Rickenbacker w horseshoe/toaster PUPs - worth it?

#2
In my opinion - no. I've owned plenty of Rics and the best sounding one that I ever had was a '74 with the high-gain pick ups. Side by side, I would say that the toaster pickups may sound slightly better, but when you factor in the other things that "flavor" tone, (wood, amp you're using, string type, etc) it's minimal and not worth the extra coin for a V63.
The greatest aspect of a V63 is it's incredibly cool look, I like it much better than the later configurations.
 
#4
The re-issue toaster is pretty much identical to the original toaster. But the re-issuse horseshoe pickup sounds pretty much the same as the standard Ric high gain pickup.

There is a reason why Rickenbacker switched from the toaster and horseshoe pickups to high gain pickups in the early 70s. The high gains sound better. But in a bit of brilliant marketing Rickenbacker now charges a premium for the "S" models with the old style pickups. The old pickups were inferior to the high gains and the "S" body style was a cheaper version that didn't sell well. But now the V63 and C64 basses cost $1000 more. The bassic 4003 is a better bass.
 
#5
Ya know, back in the day when I was 14, I was a huge Chris Squire fan and I got a 74 4001. I think it was the first year of the non-toaster pickups. Anyways, I had GAS for a toaster neck pickup and a horseshoe bridge pickup.
Well I had a guitar tech install a toaster pickup in the neck and franky, it didn't sound better. In fact, it didn't sound as good as the black one with buttons. The toaster had less clarity and definition. A couple years later I got a job at the Rick factory which happened to be nearby (Electro Stringed Instruments on Kilson in Santa Ana) and I got a horsehoe pickup, had a shop re-magnetize the horseshoe and I had that - and it sounded slightly different and about equally as good. One difference with the horseshoe, you can't take the cover off to give yourself more room to pluck because in that case it's two steel magnets wrapping around the strings and integral to the pickup. It also added weight.
I still have that bass and around 8 years ago I bought some Bartolini pickups - and they sounded worst of all! Dark and indistinct. Well, I just recently bought stock pickups from Rickenbacker with the button pole pieces and it sounds great.
Bottom line - Rick knows what they're doing. The pickups they've been using for almost 35 years sound the best (at least to me).
They've reissued the old 60's horseshoe/toaster stuff mainly for middle-aged retro collectors with money and who will display them like museum pieces but ...
Hey, Geddy Lee used the non-toaster, non-horseshoe pickups and in my opinion he had the best Rick sound of all. He modded his Ricks with Baddass bridges and different tuners but he never touched those black button-pole pickups. Listen to A Farewell To Kings, Hemispheres and Permanent Waves - can a bass guitar sound any better?
I think the stock pickups are the best.
Anybody want to buy a horseshoe pickup? Toaster pickup? Bartolini pickups for the Rick?


pjmuck said:
Are the Rickenbacker 4001V63 or 4001C64 basses worth the extra coin over a standard Rick with button PUPs? I have a chance to buy an older 4001V63 but the price is still a few hundred more than a standard Rick. Is the difference in PUPs worth the extra cost?
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#9
Hmm. The one I found is a '92 and they're asking $2300.

Are you sure the horseshoe isn't removable? This one has the top part of the horseshoe PUP removed, showing a cylindrical shaped PUP with exposed 4 poles similar to the button PUP except the poles are flat and level with the PUP casing (kinda like a Tele bass or '51 Fender RI PUP). I'm told it's the original PUP, and I read on Harmony Central some reviews saying that you can remove the top magnet part of the horseshoe and you don't lose and tone. :confused:
 
#11
You can remove the horseshoe magnets if your pickup coil is set on a bar magnet (which I think they all are). The bar magnet/coil normally sits assenbled into the two horseshoe halves and the whole thing screws onto the backing plate.
But once you remove the horseshoes, it's a regular Rick pickup.

pjmuck said:
Hmm. The one I found is a '92 and they're asking $2300.

Are you sure the horseshoe isn't removable? This one has the top part of the horseshoe PUP removed, showing a cylindrical shaped PUP with exposed 4 poles similar to the button PUP except the poles are flat and level with the PUP casing (kinda like a Tele bass or '51 Fender RI PUP). I'm told it's the original PUP, and I read on Harmony Central some reviews saying that you can remove the top magnet part of the horseshoe and you don't lose and tone. :confused:
Click to expand...
 
#12
the hi-gains are hotter pickups,which can initially sound better,but the old toaster/horseshoe pickups have more clarity and a sweeter hi frequency sound. (to me). so it depends on what you're looking for-the price premium has always been more about limited supply esp. for the hs pups. it may also be that the 4001 is the "premium" model because of all that extra plastic binding/triangles,but i've always preferred the feel of the unbound models,and the look as well.:cool::p
 
#13
The horseshoe has a somewhat difference presence that's kind of subtle but the toaster definately has LESS clarity. The toaster sounds blurry, weaker and more muffled. I've A/B'd them in the same bass (and so has another guy in this thread).

woodyng said:
the hi-gains are hotter pickups,which can initially sound better,but the old toaster/horseshoe pickups have more clarity and a sweeter hi frequency sound. (to me). so it depends on what you're looking for-the price premium has always been more about limited supply esp. for the hs pups. it may also be that the 4001 is the "premium" model because of all that extra plastic binding/triangles,but i've always preferred the feel of the unbound models,and the look as well.:cool::p
Click to expand...
 
#15
I beg to differ the hi gains are louder but louder isn't always better. Actually to me louder normally means worse because the pickup sacrifices clarity and dynamics for volume. You can simply walk over to your amp and turn up to match the high gains volume and still retain more clarity and dynamics in your playing with lower output pickups. For years I was all about hotter pickups until I got to play a vintage pre cbs strat and old Gretsch with Dynasonics pickups. I was blown away by how loud and down right nasty those pickups could get. I thought vintage meant low output hence weak and sucky pickups. Boy was I wrong. They blew me away... it was night and day. I started really noticing all the pros of lower output pups. The clarity and dynamics. I had much more control in my fingers to get subtle differences which is where most of your emotion and style come out. Many famous players secret isn't in there gear but the subtle way they strike the notes and get alot out of each note. So the lower output pickups I discovered to my ears... gives me a much better sound with more attention to subtle details and in many cases much more scream, dynamics and much more growl than higher output pickups. All I had to do is turn up my amp to adjust for the slightly lower output and now I'm the same volume as any other guitarist/bassist with high output pups but Ive retained all the pros of having lower output pickups as well. So getting back to horseshoe and toasters to me Chris Squire had the greatest Rickenbacker tone of all time not Geddy Lee though I love Geddys playing a ton. The old horseshoes are one of the first ever designed pickups used on lap steels and guitars staring in the 30s right along with Charlie christian pickups. Like with Charlie christian pickups they don't make pickups as high quality as they did back in the early days. For instance you can't get that kind of quality pure cobalt magnet for a charlie christian pickup today. The original horseshoe pickups were made extremely well quality wise compared to today's pickups in most cases. And both horseshoes and toasters were guitar pickups which to me lies the secret to Chris Squires amazing tone. Alot of the best highs and treble sounds on a bass I ever heard came out of a guitar amp. The highs are much clearer, brighter, punchier, and growl more. With a Rick o sound I would use a guitar amp with some gain like a orange or marshall amp for my bridge pickup and a nice fat clean bass amp for my neck pickup and balance the two. Distortion kills your low end usually. But mixing them gets you the best of both worlds. To me the Horseshoe bridge pickup and Toaster neck pickup are miles ahead of the high gain pickups. I'm not a fan of high gains at all. At first high gains did seem way better to me...but after I tinkered with the amp and raised the volume and eq... that growl a horseshoe bridge pickup makes to me is pure magic. That sound can only come from a vintage horseshoe. It's incredible. Put it through a guitar amp and add some gain and run the toaster through a bass amp and you get the best of both. Mark Walker has some YouTube videos using original vintage Rickenbackers with original Horseshoes and toasters and too me it's the greatest bass tone I've ever heard. The highs are so clear, cut through a mix, and growl like nothing else. Ofcoarse different strokes for different folks. Just my opinion and preference it dosnt mean I'm right and by no means am I some expert. Just get excited talking about it since it changed my playing so much once I discovered this. But try it and give Horseshoe/Toasters a real chance. Fiddle a bit with the amp. Adjust the volume so they are equal in volume to a high gain pickup and record yourself playing both at the same volume and see if you hear the difference as well. Even if you do... the tone might not be your cup of tea either. But for me original Vintage Horseshoe/Toaster pickups are tone heaven as well as lower output pick ups in general. Mark Walkers tone with an old Rick with original horseshoe/toaster pickups is perfection to me. Been using a Lollar Horseshoe pickup. I've been searching far and wide for an original vintage horseshoe pickup. If anyone has one they are willing to part with I would pay a grateful amount to finally get an original.

Mark Walker.


 
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#16
Reply to an old post. I've watched those Mark Walker clips many a time..great sound he gets also using those beautiful long spidery fingers more suited to a concert pianist..he even slightly resembles Geddy. Good example of the horseshoe toasters wonderful gravelly sound.
 
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