Right Brain, Left Brain.......in Jazz Artists?

[LowEndLobster]

123.5 % of each side. This was mathematically calculated using the scientific laws of bullpoo.

 

[Scot]

I was wondering if anybody had heard any well-known Jazz players mention this kind of thing?

I used to sit in on as many of Joe Diorio's classes as possible when I was at BIT years ago. I recall him suggesting that improvising musicians always play their "hunches" becasue the hunches are always right. He also suggested doing something he called "gesture improvising" which basically amounts to noodling around without thinking about any structure, chords, meter, lines, etc. When you do that you find yourself playing harmony and meter, etc. eventually. He talked a lot about using the right brain and even suggested students check out the Betty Edwards art book called "Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain". I did pick up a copy of that book and worked on some of the exercises. I don't know if it helped me musically but my drawing got better.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I used to sit in on as many of Joe Diorio's classes as possible when I was at BIT years ago. I recall him suggesting that improvising musicians always play their "hunches" becasue the hunches are always right. He also suggested doing something he called "gesture improvising" which basically amounts to noodling around without thinking about any structure, chords, meter, lines, etc.

The Jazz summerschool I go to regularly (off there on Sunday
) - there has been emphasis on working on free improvisation, often in duos - trying to make music, without thinking about any structure. I really enjoy it - but some people are terrified of this and grimace whenever it's mentioned...?

 

[Howard K]

some people are terrified of this and grimace whenever it's mentioned...?

Sounds great to me.. looking forward to it.

NB, I expect this comes moer naturally to people who come a self-taught (rock) background.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yeah - I played in rock bands where we made up whole sets out of freeform jams! - it's something I discussed with Jason Yarde who was a tutor I had one year at Glamorgan.

So he talked about how each time you do this, you bring your experience with you - so Jazz players bring all their listening and theoretical knowledge and maybe experience of other types of music. So - Jason plays in Jazz jamaica and I suppose he and many other musicians in London can draw on a Carribean musical tradition as well as things like R&B, soul, Jazz etc.

And all this goes into free playing and what you have to add to the mix - but if you don't have any experience of listening or playing much music before, then it can be hard to find something to 'say' ?

 

[Mr Fretless]

Here's what Kai Eckhardt would say about this:

"Soloing is part cognitive and part intuitive. The most important thing for a musician to understand, is the function of the rational mind. There are three stages. During the first stage you have to acquire tools. Arpeggios, scales and approach patterns for instance. Work on the fingerings, practice a line - always in all 12 keys - and get solid on the new material at different tempi.

Stage two comes into play when you are able to recall the new material instantly. Then you should focus on a good sound and articulation. Master different dynamics.


During the third stage... you have to forget everything, and just play! The third stage is all about filling the notes with emotion."

 

[craigers2]

i just found this thead and i found it very interesting. i've tried to describe my role as a bass player to non-musicians and it is not as easy as it may seem. basically our job as bass players is a combination of right brain and left brain activities. our job in the band is to be the "link" between the rhythm of the songs and the chord changes of the songs. i am a pretty analytical guy and i've studied in school, lessons, and listening to recordings certain patters that will work in certain situations. you can study this all you want, but when it comes time to playing, you basically just throw it out the window and play what sounds "right in your own head". you apply all that you learned subconciously, but you aren't thinking in your head "root, third, fifth, etc."...

 

[Scot]

Yep, no doubt about it. Once you hit the bandstand you have to forget about everything you've learned and play what you feel (hear). The practice room is the place to do the thinking and to work things out. What I found interesting (and liberating) about Joe Diorio's teachings was that he suggested spending some practice time working on your creativity (right brain) in the practice room so that when you hit the bandstand you're not just "running" the stuff you've been woodsheding in the practice room. The nice thing about it is that the stuff you have been working on starts to come out when gesture improvising but in a musical way. Sometimes you'll just start playing a tune or whatever. Sometimes I'll come up with exercies doing that based on something I'm having difficulty executing. It's a lot of fun and feels good.

-Scot

 

[Ike Harris]

Last weekend I had the fortunate experience to play in a small jazz listening room recently built in the mt's of South Carolina. It didn't pay very well considering the long ride, but the month has been slow and nothing else came in for that night, so the drummer and I drove up. We talked quite a bit along the way, about music and other things but mostly about music. We'd both knocked around the business for 30-40 years playing all manner of styles; jazz, rock, country, classical, live, studio, you name it.

We came to agree that if you can continue to study and grow, and find a way to stay positive about what you're doing, you will only get better at the always elusive puzzle that we constantly try to solve: music.

Anyway, I was prepared to hate this gig that we'd travelled so far to play; rehearse with the chick singer, rest, eat dinner, do the gig. We did the usual routine of, band plays a couple of tunes, back up the singer, break, repeat. Well, things were starting to break loose, particularly in the band tunes in this very relaxed and appreciative atmosphere. After a couple of sets with the singer, it was the band's turn to close out the night. The owner of the place said, "OK, just play some stuff and take it OUT". How often do you hear that by a club owner? Usually they say, "Don't play too loud, you'll annoy the diners" or something to that effect. Well, we got into some well-chosen tunes and visited most of the known planets and some unknown ones, too. Not random blasting away, but in a musical way, building on the foundation of the tune until it goes far beyond the normal bounds of the everyday "playing tunes gig". The people ate up every second of it. It was both invigorating and exhausting. I came away ready to come back the next time I could work it out.

I'm not sure why I went into this extemporaneous monologue, but just to say keep feeding the mind with practise, study and musical experiences and you will reap results beyond your imagination.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Damn Ike, where all in SC? I know that there's the joint on Hilton Head (Jazz Cafe) and there's the regular joint (used to be Thursday's only) in Columbia. Skip Pearson used to get alla these weird gigs in joints that were dance clubs most of the time, but would have a "jazz night" in the middle of the week.

But since I get back to Augusta Ga once or twice a year, I would love to have some options for doing some gigging...

 

[pontz]

A classic line, often repeated, suggests that one should learn the chords and scales that are associated with a tune, then practice and practice more, and finally -- on the gig -- just get up and play.

I have to agree. But this is difficult to achieve. For the first few years I played, I didn't take music too seriously. I jammed with friends once a week, and without any theory or training, improvised stricky with my ear. Later I started to study theory with a teacher and developed some strict practice habits. I've come along way and feel like I can play just about anything, with just about anyone (that sounds cocky. please take it with a grain of salt. I run in an amateur music scene, play local bars, not quitting the day job if you know what I mean) Anyway, the problem is I never feel "in the moment" like I did in my formative years. I tend to think of instead of hear the next note. And as much as I like playing more sophisticated music, with better musicians, I miss the feeling of complete nievity and inhibition. So now I'm trying to practice with my left brain and perform without thinking at all.

Pontz

 

[mnadelin]

Here's my opinion on the left vs. right brain thing. I'm very left brain dominated. I've found that because the left brain controls the intellectual side of things, I'm quite good with music theory. I also play 3 instruments fairly well (bass, drums keyboards). I've found the left-brain qualities and overall understanding of music has made it a lot easier for me to translate my skills onto other instruments. As far as jazz goes, I do think I have the ability to understand time signitures and keep the pocket quite well compared to most of my peers. Now the other side of that is, the right brain controls the creative side. As a result, I have virtually no compositional or songwriting ability. I can sometimes develop an idea because that often can turn into a big math problem (figuring out intervals and such). But other than that, I have very little creativity and I kind of wish I did. So I would say for a session player or someone who just works as a normal musician, the left brain aspects are probably a little more important. For someone who wants to be a composer or songwriter, the right brain is probably more important. Of course, that's just my opinion and I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions to the rule out there. It's logical, though. Those who have an equal dominance between the brain hemispheres are probably better off, but if you have a different balance, you can still definitely be a successful musician.

 

[Scot]

If you don't have some compositional skills how the heck are you going to be able to play jazz? Playing jazz is composing in real time. And good session players are some of the most creative players around. I don't think you're going to go far as a session player if you don't have the ability to come up with happening basslines on the fly.

-Scot

 

[Paul Warburton]

If you don't have some compositional skills how the heck are you going to be able to play jazz? Playing jazz is composing in real time. And good session players are some of the most creative players around. I don't think you're going to go far as a session player if you don't have the ability to come up with happening basslines on the fly.

-Scot

What do you mean "compositional skills"
I'm a successful jazz player and I got no schoolin' atall.....

 

[mnadelin]

If you don't have some compositional skills how the heck are you going to be able to play jazz? Playing jazz is composing in real time. And good session players are some of the most creative players around. I don't think you're going to go far as a session player if you don't have the ability to come up with happening basslines on the fly.

-Scot

What I meant was coming up with a brand new melody. I can develop an existing idea because at that point, the intellect can take over more and start thinking about which intervals will sound good walking from chord X to chord Y. So like you said, I can come up with some decent lines on the fly, I was specifically talking about songwriting. And most of my experience with jazz has been on drums, where you don't need so much compositional ability, and you need to keep time and hold the band together. I do agree that you do have to have some ability to create lines in a session setting, though.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

I'm big on using both at once, in all activities. Drawing, writing, but ESPECIALLY music. Today I was jamming with my guitar/summer bass teacher (he was playing my fretless, myself on his guitar) I was improvising over a blues-funk beat he was playing. I pulled out a 2 octave blues scale he showed me and started playing. I'm big on leaving space in the music (Prince's 8th band member is 'silence' -- cool) so there were a lot of times I'd fade out and let him go, or let a note sustain while I just "felt" the music -- right brain. Occasionally he'd call out a chord and we'd zoom over to it, which was where my left brain zoomed in and took over for a beat.

Another time was when I started writing something, and I laid out a 12 bar blues kind of thing with a I-V-VI instead of I-IV-V. I only ended up playing 9 bars of it before I started to "fall into myself" and started playing inside the chord structure, but not in any set patterns.

 

[Scot]

What do you mean "compositional skills"
I'm a successful jazz player and I got no schoolin' atall.....

What I mean by "compositional skills" is the ability to "compose" a bassline on the fly. What does schooling have to do with that? Isn't what we do when we play jazz is compose basslines? I was under the impression that the thread was about right brain (creative part) vs. left brain (intelluctual part) and not "schooled" vs. "non-schooled".

mnadelin,
I would think that your ability to hear which intervals sound good is purely right brain. I don't think the intellect has anything to do with our opinions of what sounds good. I think the theory is there to explain why things that sound good do sound good. Things don't sound good because they are theoreticlly correct. I guess I view (good) basslines as melodies down low and don't really find them to be any different in a creative sense then the melodies on top. Of course, we have a responsibility to play some root notes and all that but good basslines are still well-composed ones, IMO.

I'm not trying to be all high-and-mighty about it but I just think it's an interesting topic. It's pretty difficult to explain why some things make us feel good. I think that's the right brain stuff.

-Scot

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I'm not trying to be all high-and-mighty about it but I just think it's an interesting topic.

So did I - glad some others think so as well - no matter how long it's taken to find the thread!!

 

[Paul Warburton]

What I mean by "compositional skills" is the ability to "compose" a bassline on the fly. What does schooling have to do with that? Isn't what we do when we play jazz is compose basslines? I was under the impression that the thread was about right brain (creative part) vs. left brain (intelluctual part) and not "schooled" vs. "non-schooled".
-Scot

Jeeze Scott, don't get all in a huff....Your use of the phrase "compositional skills" gives the impression that you might be talking about some schooling in composition.
I know what the thread is about.
My point is that people like me don't have alot of "left brain" activity.

 

[Howard K]

I'm a successful jazz player and I got no schoolin' atall.....

Paul, your lack of skooling is of great inspiration to me as an aspiring jazzer I might never get there, but at least I knows it's possible without spending thousands of pounds per term in full-time education.

Left brain, right brain... All my musical ideas just come out of nowhere - they just appear, which feels like the creative brain working? The logical side seems only to help me structure and access information - an invaluable tool in itself.