Right notes, right time, wrong feel

[berlihe]

The thread about whether "Le Freak" is easy to play has gotten me thinking about songs where you know you're playing the right notes in the right places, but it still sounds like garbage (lots of people learn Bernard Edwards riffs, not a lot of people sound like Bernard Edwards). For me, it's often reggae/dub songs where I have this problem (plenty of other songs are just too hard for me):





It's just hard to latch onto something in the note lengths / dynamics that makes this sound so good. What are some songs where you know you're playing the right notes in the right time, but you can't get it to sound good?

 

[Malcolm35]

I let the lyrics do this for me. Singing along, under my breath with the lead vocalist seems to help me being in sync with what is happening on the song.

Not sure that will help with your problem, however, I offer it for what it is worth.

 

[chris_b]

Stop playing notes and play timing.

Hit the tread mill and play until you develop a flow to your notes.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

You describe the difference between playing notes and playing music. Dynamics (relative loudness of notes), subtle variations in timing/manipulation of the pocket, note length all contribute “swing” or “groove”. Learning the notes is just the beginning of learning to play a song.

@Malcolm35 sings, I move my feet/dance a little sometimes if the groove doesn’t come easily for a given song. Others may weigh in with different techniques. I find that for more difficult and interesting songs, this is the part where I spend a lot more time than just learning which notes, and where on my neck to place them.

 

[BaileyMan]

Are you playing these songs with others? How do you know it's you and not them? Are the notes precisely in the right place? A lot of the feel is about placing the notes just in front or just behind the beat. We're talking a difference on the order of probably 10's of milliseconds.

It really takes the whole band to make the feel right.

Of course there is all that other stuff, the dynamics, the note length, the tone.

It can be really fun to work on the feel of songs and play around with trying to get as close as possible to some of these greats!

 

[SteveCS]

Are you playing these songs with others? How do you know it's you and not them?
...
It really takes the whole band to make the feel right.
...

Good, no excellent, point.

@berlihe If you can't get the precise feel when playing along with recordings I wouldn't sweat it too much. Consider this - in a band situation there is (should be) a lot of active listening going on, with everyone making continual micro-adjustments to arrive at and maintain a 'consensus' regarding the pulse and feel. That includes not only note placement (which you say you have), but also articulation, dynamics, duration, phrasing and shaping of lines, etc. With a recording, the only person making reacting and adjustments is you - no-one on that recording is listening to you and no-one is reacting to your contribution to or your personal interpretation of the pulse. It is almost inevitable that there will be some discrepancy along the way, however small. Get with a band and create your own consensus and IME all will surely come good.

 

[PeaveyPlayer]

Your not the only one

my dad has been playing drums for years playing reggae and many other genres. when I started playing bass at 14 I learnt a lot from him about time feel and groove

But as I got older and started playing with his bands and more projects
Reggae was definitely my hardest

one thing that helped. Is when I play instead of counting it in. 1-2-3-4 on every beat

i play it halftime tempo and it really does help with spacing it out more

 

[Levent]

one thing that helped. Is when I play instead of counting it in. 1-2-3-4 on every beat

i play it halftime tempo and it really does help with spacing it out more

Similarly thats exactly why most jazz oriented teachers recommend practicing with metronome at beat 2 and 4. And It'a not only for swing, this way you put out more time and feel from yourself rather than latch onto drummer/metronome

 

[Jazz Ad]

Once you enter the lines into a notation software, what must be done and whatnot for it to work appears clearly.
It can be a ternary feel of a note that starts a 16th before or after the time that makes it work. It's all about counting and/or feeling the time pulse.
The way it works is now so well understood that most drum machines and groove boxes have humanizer and swing settings to get the groove going.

 

[Malcolm35]

I got a "Beat Buddy drum machine" and ask our drummer to look it over and pick out several beats he would use. His answer, as he handed it back was, Of the 100 beats in this machine I have to feel the song first. After I get a feel for this specific song, I'll let you know Which Beat I'll use.

So, it depends on several things, listening is high on the list.