Roadworn Basses Opinions

[Jim Carr]

If it's a great bass, that's fine. Everyone has their own taste.
My personal feeling is that scars are EARNED, not bought.

Indeed, everyone has their own taste, and I respect your right to dislike Road Worn Fender basses, but how really, do the dings in a finish on a bass constitute a "badge of courage" or a document of any real significance? Basses are refinished all the time, they are dropped by idiots (like us), time takes its toll as things corrode, lose pigment, warp, and just plain wear away. A bass finish, set of frets, electronics, and hardware are amazingly fragile and transient—but are not able to make a single sound on their own. If worn, they only paint a silent sentimental picture like one of those old violins nailed to a barn door. The damage and age conjure nothing real.

Let's go back in time. I have a double bass built in the Austrian Tyrol in about 1850. I've played it since 1974. It was never a particularly fancy bass, and has been patched up many times, refinished at least three times, and has more cracks than humpty dumpty. It is over 160 years old. It will probably last another 100 years if it is well-cared for. After that, it probably will be more glue and patches than original. Has it has earned anything?

I also have a 1955 P-bass. It was purchased in Nashville by a now dead friend in 1974. It had been refinished in pink spray enamel over the tobacco burst nitro. He pirated two pots and a knob, stripped the body, refinished it in thick poly with a brush, and swapped in 1970 pots and a knob. He sold it to me for $240. I played it to pay for my BA in Music, and had it restored in 2007. It looks like a well-cared for '55 P-bass. Has it has earned anything?

I had a '69 P-bass which I sold to buy a much superior instrument that I play almost all the time. I played the '69 P for years in many a kick-ass Bay Area R&B band. It became very "Road Worn." There was a big patch of poly gone from the body contour, and the buckle rash looked like Africa and India in an intimate embrace. Someone bought it. Has it earned anything?

My point is this. What matters most? Is it the instruments' scars, their wear and tear from time and stupidity, or is it the music made by the musician, the musician's actual experience, and the experience of the listeners? Instruments do not feel, think, remember, play, or hear music—only you and I do. Instruments just wear out. If you want a document of your experience, let it be your artistry as a musician, not the random pattern of dings on the finish of a transient instrument. To worship a bass in such a way is just too sentimental, even for me.

If a musician plays a new shiny custom bass or a scarred relic that she bought with her hard-earned wages, who really cares? What I want to know is how does the groove sound when she plays the bass! Any scars, earned or conjured are silent, aren't they? Only the musicianship of the player counts.

 

[JIO]

Indeed, everyone has their own taste, and I respect your right to dislike Road Worn Fender basses, but how really, do the dings in a finish on a bass constitute a "badge of courage" or a document of any real significance? Basses are refinished all the time, they are dropped by idiots (like us), time takes its toll as things corrode, lose pigment, warp, and just plain wear away. A bass finish, set of frets, electronics, and hardware are amazingly fragile and transient—but are not able to make a single sound on their own. If worn, they only paint a silent sentimental picture like one of those old violins nailed to a barn door. The damage and age conjure nothing real.

Let's go back in time. I have a double bass built in the Austrian Tyrol in about 1850. I've played it since 1974. It was never a particularly fancy bass, and has been patched up many times, refinished at least three times, and has more cracks than humpty dumpty. It is over 160 years old. It will probably last another 100 years if it is well cared-for. After that, it probably will be more glue and patches than original. Has it has earned anything?

I also have a 1955 P-bass. It was purchased in Nashville by a now dead friend in 1974. It had been refinished in pink spray enamel over the tobacco burst nitro. He pirated two pots and a knob, stripped the body, refinished it in thick poly with a brush, and swapped in 1970 pots and a knob. He sold it to me for $240. I played it to pay for my BA in Music, and had it restored in 2007. It looks like a well-cared for '55 P-bass. Has it has earned anything?

I had a '69 P-bass which I sold it to buy a much superior instrument that I play almost all the time. I played the '69 P for years in a many a kick ass Bay Area R&B band. It became very "Road Worn." There was a big patch of poly gone from the body contour, and the buckle rash looked like Africa and India in an intimate embrace. Someone bought it. Has it earned anything?

My point is this. What matters most? Is it the instruments' scars, their wear and tear from time and stupidity, or is it the music made by the musician, the musician's actual experience, and the experience of the listeners? Instruments do not feel, think, remember, play, or hear music—only you and I do. Instruments just wear out. If you want a document of your experience, let it be your artistry as a musician, not the random pattern of dings on the finish of a transient instrument. To worship a bass in such a way is just too sentimental, even for me.

If a musician plays a new shiny custom bass or a scarred relic that she bought with her hard-earned wages, who really cares? What I want to know is how does the groove sound when she plays the bass! Any scars, earned or conjured are silent, aren't they? Only the musicianship of the player counts.

yaaay! (bravisimo!) …and to repeat from an earlier post - I don't own one (yet) but hear they are great! (Fender Road-Worn basses) Would have no problem whatsoever acquiring/playing one if I needed another J. (which I don't yes, that's right - not another J, really.., even if it sounded great…MOVE AWAY FROM THE J...)

 

[Jim Carr]

Here is MeShell, not long after buying her Jazz relic. The scars are in that girl's soul!

 

[Muttleybass]

Indeed, everyone has their own taste, and I respect your right to dislike Road Worn Fender basses, but how really, do the dings in a finish on a bass constitute a "badge of courage" or a document of any real significance?

I did not say that I "disliked" them. Just that to me, a truly scarred and worn instrument shows a history. If you look at the post above, that bass (if it's truly worn and not bought that way) has a soul that can't be replicated artificially. Is it significant? Not as much as her talent as a player. Just that when I see a truly road worn bass, my imagination of the stories it could tell runs wild. To buy a bass that is manufactured to look worn just seems a bit phony to me. My bass, although not THAT worn, has a story behind every ding.

Of course a truly talented player impresses me more than the instrument they play. So, MY personal feeling is, why buy it specifically for the artificial tarnished finish? Because you love the bass? Fine. If it's because you want to fool people into thinking you have a well played vintage instrument? Not so cool. Something feels off when you buy something new and try to pass it off as an antique.

I played with a guitar player that had a 60's Les Paul. It was his baby. I noticed that it had bite marks all around the edge. I had to ask... He said, "It's just a tool. It's my brush to my sonic canvas. I am the music, not my guitar." Then he proceed to tell me who's bite marks they were. Jim McCullough and Nick Gilder of Sweeney Todd, some other fairly famous and respected local players around, other players he'd played with or backed up, and then me. I thought it was kind of a cool story. You can't buy that.

But hey, if it appeals to you, fill yer boots.

 

[Jim Carr]

...If you look at the post above, that bass (if it's truly worn and not bought that way) has a soul that can't be replicated artificially...

Meshell's bass was already beat to crap when she bought it. That is the point. It has no "soul" because of scratches, wear, scars, stories, smells, etc. Nada. It is just a bass. A very cool looking and sounding bass, owned by an artist, but just an old relic bass. No one uses it as a memory device to remind them of the times they dropped it on the dressing room bathroom floor or when their dog barfed on it, right?

To buy a bass that is manufactured to look worn just seems a bit phony to me.

Yes. You are 100% correct. Road Worn basses have manufactured wear. This is more than a little bit phony. IT IS TOTALLY PHONY, in that it did not occur by being used as a bass by a dozen previous owners, like Meshells. However, no imaginations were harmed in the making of RW basses. You can still imagine anything you like with one. Preferably amazingly deep grooves.

Sorry. I misinterpreted your previous post "...scars are EARNED, not bought" to mean that you felt phony wear was something you disliked. I'm sure you can understand my confusion.

My bass, although not THAT worn, has a story behind every ding...You can't buy that...

True, you can't buy another human beings personal experience. But isn't it the experience that matters? What about all those zillions of times I've had great experiences with my instrument, but it left no mark?

I reject the bass as a nemonic device. It is, to me, just an instrument.

 

[Muttleybass]

I reject the bass as a nemonic device. It is, to me, just an instrument.

Well, that's not very romantic!

 

[Jim Carr]

Well, that's not very romantic!

True. For romanticism, we have Hawaiian Reggae from The Green, Anuhea, and J. Boog

 

[Jim Carr]

...If it's because you want to fool people into thinking you have a well-played vintage instrument? Not so cool. Something feels off when you buy something new and try to pass it off as an antique...

Yes. I agree, in that if someone plays a road worn bass before an audience of musicians (not an uncommon event here in Denton, TX) and then when asked lies and says that their November 2008 Fender Road Worn Jazz Bass is actually a November 1965 Fender Jazz bass, is being childish for fibbing. No doubt it could happen, and when asked I always ask "Does it sound good?"

What if I play my '55 P-bass for the same audience and someone asks if it is a '55 RI Sting bass with the "Sting-lay" removed and I ask "Does it sounds like a vintage Fender?", should I be smacked for being a little snarky?

Or what if I play my CS Jazz relic at the same imaginary event, and someone asks if it is a CS Jazz relic and I say, "Doesn't it sound like one?"

And finally, what if I play a fully carved Upton Gamba flatback upright with vintage-style hat-rack tuners and an "aged" finish" (order me one today, please!) and somebody says, "Nothing sounds better than a great old Tyrolean Bass", should I say, "No, you are wrong. This bass was made in 2014 in Connecticut not in 1850 in the Austrian Tyroi", or should I simply say "Did it sound like one?"

Don't answer these dumb rhetorical questions! My point is again that it is the music that matters, not the finish on the stuff we love to use to make it.

 

[One Drop]

Here is MeShell, not long after buying her Jazz relic. The scars are in that girl's soul!

She didn't earn the wear on those cargo pants.

PHONY!!

 

[Gaolee]

I have scars. They remind me of stupid things I did. Is that earned, or just dumb?

 

[iammr2]

I have scars. They remind me of stupid things I did. Is that earned, or just dumb?

Oy!! This one is just too easy. I'll behave...

 

[ShoeManiac]

If it's a great bass, that's fine. Everyone has their own taste.

My personal feeling is that scars are EARNED, not bought.

IMHO, that criteria is questionable at best.

Some people take really good care of their instruments, but still play them quite rigorously. So if someone plays that instrument hard for 20 years, but because they've taken care of it then that instrument DOESN'T have that special something that makes it a great bass? The fact is that there are plenty of great "player" instruments out there that haven't been beat to hell or have finish checking.

And on the flipside, I've seen some players who just don't respect their instruments at all. Hell, at BP Live I heard reports of Tal Wilkenfeld just dragging her Sadowsky on the floor behind her after a clinic she held. An NYC Sadowsky!!!! So if someone doesn't take good care of their bass and it gets all dinged up, it somehow attains these special powers known as "Mojo"?

Real world wear happens. But not necessarily for all of the reasons that everyone has in mind. And relic finishes are there to replicate that sort of wear, but present players with the look of an aged bass without the problems that come along with 20 or 30 years of gigging, climate changes and pounding. And so, I will keep on playing my own Roadworn Jazz for the foreseeable future. Because it plays great, sounds awesome, and I also happen to dig the way it looks. Don't like that? Guess what: I don't care. It's not your instrument.

 

[SwitchGear]

I did not buy my road worn jazz because of the scars, i bought it because it is light weight, and plays, sounds and feels real good. If someone does not dig it because of the way it looks, that is their problem, not mine.

 

[ole Jason]

"It's just a tool. It's my brush to my sonic canvas. I am the music, not my guitar."

At that point I would have laughed in his face. Sounds like your guitar player has smoked too many bowls.

 

[noeinstein]

I've followed this argument (RW ethics) for some time and I'm still not sure I understand it. I bought my RW Jazz because I dug the way it looked. Subsequently, I have been very pleasantly surprised by the way it feels and plays. I have five basses and it is my favorite. Savvy, experienced musicians admire it, want to buy it, and ask me how old it is. I always tell them the truth. What is my sin?

There are many basses I am not attracted to and, therefore, would not buy, though they are fine instruments and coveted by other players. I am fascinated by how differently two people can perceive the same thing. Maybe if we can dig that, we can have an enlightening discussion of our different perceptions... learn from each other. Arguments are polarizing and unproductive. Discussions offer more options.

 

[Gaolee]

Oy!! This one is just too easy. I'll behave...

When you get served, whack it out of the park!

But remember, chicks dig scars. I like my RW P-Bass. Chicks don't notice it. Oh, well.

 

[elBandito]

I think it's about time fender added new colors to the lineup.

 

[SwitchGear]

I once owned a roadworn p but sold it because precisions aren't my thing. That was a great player also.

I don't dig the scars that much on RW's, but can tolerate them for the positive attributes these basses offer that I desire in a bass guitar - light weight, broke in great neck and tone, etc. There are no other new Fender basses available near this price point that I know of, that consistently offer all of these attributes.

The RW's are top notch working mans basses that won't leave you out thousands if it would unfortunately disappear, compared to a similar feeling vintage or custom shop p or j bass.

 

[jfh2424]

Here is a newsflash for some of you: some bassists buy basses because of how they sound. I am one of them.

The wear is completly unimportant and doesn't factor into the equation.

Take care!

John

 

[Muttleybass]

IMHO, that criteria is questionable at best.

Some people take really good care of their instruments, but still play them quite rigorously. So if someone plays that instrument hard for 20 years, but because they've taken care of it then that instrument DOESN'T have that special something that makes it a great bass? The fact is that there are plenty of great "player" instruments out there that haven't been beat to hell or have finish checking..

Totally not my point. My point was buying a bass BECAUSE it is manufactured to look like it's been through hell to fool everyone into thinking it's vintage is phony. It's like putting a Harley badge on a Kawasaki. .. Or a Fender decal on an Indonesian Squire. It's not WHAT you play, it's how you play it and it's sound and playability. Now if you like said road worn bass because it plays and sounds great, and you think it looks great, that's awesome. I'm glad you found what you were looking for. FWIW, I pay more attention to the player, not the bass.

To me... and this is my opinion ONLY, To me, there's something romantic about it a truly worn out instrument... Like it's given it's life in the pursuit of music! (he says with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Real world wear happens. But not necessarily for all of the reasons that everyone has in mind. And relic finishes are there to replicate that sort of wear, but present players with the look of an aged bass without the problems that come along with 20 or 30 years of gigging, climate changes and pounding. And so, I will keep on playing my own Roadworn Jazz for the foreseeable future. Because it plays great, sounds awesome, and I also happen to dig the way it looks. Don't like that? Guess what: I don't care. It's not your instrument.

Exactly! Rock on...