Makes sense to me, take that money and invest it in something that will work and sound great for years to come. Lots of wonderful new amps out there.
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Double Bass Roland Cube 60 Bass (orange) recapping a good idea?
- Thread starter fasternak
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- cube 60 bass recapping roland
I donated mine to the church I grew up in. I play there once or twice a year and really enjoy playing thru her, but I enjoy more seeing the next generation getting good use of her.
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okcrum
in your chest
When you make an aluminum electrolytic cap, you take two long strips of aluminum foil, with a strip of (usually) paper between them as a spacer so they don't short together, and roll it up tightly into a cylinder. That's why they have that can shape. Then you add electrolyte and connections, and seal the can.
After a long period of storage, the caps' dielectric degenerates, because it is just a thin layer of aluminum oxide (NOT the paper spacer) on the plates of the capacitor. Because it is so thin, you can pack a lot of capacitance into a small package.
If the cap has not dried out (the electrolyte is water based), the dielectric oxide layer can be reformed by applying voltage to the capacitor. Most of the time this happens when the circuit the cap is in gets powered up after storage. In extreme cases (high voltage caps or high energy cap arrays) this is done by slowly raising the voltage across the capacitor until you reach the normal working voltage, while monitoring the current. This prevents the cap from simply arcing over internally through the spacer between the plates before the dielectric has reformed.
If the cap has dried out, the only thing you can do is replace it.
Needless to say, one of the last parts of making electrolytics is forming the dielectric for the first time.
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Thank you, Okcrum. I took this amp to one of the local techs today. And he kind of implied I was a little nuts to be so jacked over this old beater. I don't think he appreciates how difficult it is to find an agreeable upright sound via amplifier. His attitude was pretty discouraging. And I didn't bother trying to explain it to him. I bought an iron and successfully replaced a blown capacitor in a monitor last year. Perhaps I'll do it again myself when one blows in my old cube. This event made me realize my Acoustic Image Clarus SL is not doing it for me. It makes my upright sound too electric. I can't stop fiddling with eq when I use it. Whereas, the pots go to noon on the Cube and I rarely touch them again. I need to find a new rig that does this for me.
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Fasternack,
What pickup and speaker cabinet are you using with the Clarius SL? Believe me when I say that, I feel your pain. I was perfectly content giging with that GK 200MB for many years, until I traded it for one of the newer MBE's only to find out the hard way that the new amps EQ voicing didn't have the warmth and timbre of the 200MB with a Double Bass. The Cube 60 had a similar warmth. The MAS 1/8 Mike Arnopol Sound Works gets me that warmth, timbre and then some. It's small, compact and can be purchased with an internal power amplifier. Also there was the Euphonic Audio VL-108 heaver than the MAS and out of production
but sometimes avaliable used, with the Low B-1.
Realist Lifeline, Euphonic Audio Wizzy 12 on a floor stand, Eva Pirazzi strings (I use the bow on occasion).
I have a 12-year old Christopher (Chinese Hybrid) 3/4 upright. So I'm a bit hobbled right out of the blocks. I spent a year or so struggling with the GK 200MB. My QSC 12 monitor sounded much better (transparent). But I still needed some tone control to deal with various room situations. So I added a Fishman Platinum. The addition of the preamp spoiled the sound. So I called one of the big online bass specialty shops. They directed me to my current rig. And I'm not happy with it.
I recently added a Tone Dexter to the mix. It's helped some but not enough. it's hissy and adds unwelcome complication and stress to setup on the gig.
The next steps I am considering are: more quality mic rentals for new Tone Dexter samples; Spirocore weichs; a different pickup; a better preamp for my QS 12; recapping my old, very beatup and ugly orange Cube; buying another amp; a new and affordable Wan Bernadel upright or any combination of the above.
Of course, I like the warmth you're referring to. But I need more of that MBOL thing. My bass sounds like an EUR. Based on the details of my saga do you think I should look into the Arpol and EA that you mentioned? I really appreciate your feedback. Thanks, Ric!
I have a 12-year old Christopher (Chinese Hybrid) 3/4 upright. So I'm a bit hobbled right out of the blocks. I spent a year or so struggling with the GK 200MB. My QSC 12 monitor sounded much better (transparent). But I still needed some tone control to deal with various room situations. So I added a Fishman Platinum. The addition of the preamp spoiled the sound. So I called one of the big online bass specialty shops. They directed me to my current rig. And I'm not happy with it.
I recently added a Tone Dexter to the mix. It's helped some but not enough. it's hissy and adds unwelcome complication and stress to setup on the gig.
The next steps I am considering are: more quality mic rentals for new Tone Dexter samples; Spirocore weichs; a different pickup; a better preamp for my QS 12; recapping my old, very beatup and ugly orange Cube; buying another amp; a new and affordable Wan Bernadel upright or any combination of the above.
Of course, I like the warmth you're referring to. But I need more of that MBOL thing. My bass sounds like an EUR. Based on the details of my saga do you think I should look into the Arpol and EA that you mentioned? I really appreciate your feedback. Thanks, Ric!
okcrum
in your chest
I've just started using a QSC CP8 with my Fishman preamp for small to medium gigs and monitoring, and it sounds fabulous. Tiny and light too.
Yeah? Maybe I'll try pairing my QSC with a different preamp. So many players really like the various things - Fishman Pre, AI Clarus, GK 200mb- that aren't working for my ears. I have to wonder if the real issue is either my realist pickup or my cheap bass. Limited success with Cube 60b and QCS has got me confused, though. Feeling a little OCD. Your QSC 8 is big enough to do the job? I'm not real surprised to hear this. They are all remarkable monitors.
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okcrum
in your chest
The lower input impedance of the Roland will help warm your pickup's sound due to loading it down more than the regular DB preamp + QSC. This is true for most modern bass amps, which are in the 500k ohm to 1 meg ohm range, rather than the 10+ megohms of piezo preamps. It looks to be a little more true for your Roland, since its input impedance is a little under 300k (ballpark, from looking at the schematic).
I use a cheap hybrid bass and the often-derided BP100. It took some playing with the pickup positions and the EQ to get it right for me using the preamp. The bass sounded pretty good plugged directly into any of my bass amps before I got the Fishman preamp, due to the pickup loading. I wanted more note definition, though, and I couldn't quite get it going straight into a bass amp.
This is a bit of streatch for me to understand. But it does give me some idea why the old Roland sounds better to me.
okcrum
in your chest
Running a piezo pickup into a low impedance will tend to roll off the highs more than the lows, and also drop the output voltage somewhat overall. This is enhanced by many bass amp inputs having a small rolloff capacitor (in your Roland, it's C23, and also C24 in the second stage) to make the amp hiss less and reject noise on the input. To a piezo pickup, which is a tiny capacitor itself, that 100pf or so looks pretty large.
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I'll need to simmer this information for a spell. My enemy is the round, sinewave-like tone I normally expect to hear in a EUR or bass guitar and boom. I am forever applying filter/eq adjustments to this miserable tone with intention of uncovering the natural sound of my upright bass without sucess via my AI Clarus. My instincts tell me that the harmonic complexity that I need is not available here for some reason. So I'm thinking I must need a different pickup, different strings or a new bass. Your description of rolling off the highs strikes me as the opposite of what I need. However, the Roland (and QSC) does deliver what I need. In fact, the Roland blew my mind. Perhaps, we are on the same page here after all.
Fasternack,
With all the great equipment you have you should be getting a great sound! Spirocores are great in some ways, but I was never able to get exactly what I wanted out of them with a bow. I actually quite prefer the Evah's. By warmth, I was generally reffering to MBOL. If you
have an adjustable bridge, you should consider the Yamahiko, it's a very good sounding pickup, think of it as a Fishman Full Circle on steriods. Then just borrow a really good microphone to make your samples on the Tone Dexter. I love the Schoeps CMC6, the Peluso CEMC6, or
even the Line Audio CM6 which is very reasonable (under $200.00). You really shouldn't need anything else. There's also the option of the Ischell condenser microphone from France, it has it's volume limitations but is a nice compromise between a pickup or a DPA 4099Dvote (Core)
The Yamahiko comes in a Double or Single Element Version The Ischell easily attaches to the body with non marring putty
Yamahiko $700?
Know anything about the Meyers pickup (gooseneck mic)?
I sampled with one of my Rode NT5 and a nicer Audio Technica (model number escapes me). I am going to try renting two or three better mics and work on that tone dexter.
I expect you are right. I've got the gear most people find agreeable. It must be the pickup that's giving me trouble.
Thanks again, Ric!
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Fasternack,
The single element Yamahiko is roughly half the price of the dual. Should you decide to get the other element somewhere down the road, they are independent components that use a cable to connect them. Some players have discovered that
the really preferred the single due to issues with phaseing.
Yamahiko sounds promising. I had similar phasing issues with an underwood. It sounded better when I pulled one of the two pickups out of the bridge. I'm going to give a Myers clip-on mic a shot first via satisfaction guarantee. If this doesn't do the trick I'll add another $100 to the budget and try the Yamahiko. If it's a popular product perhaps I can recoup most of my money via resale if I don't care for it. I'll look into it. Appreciate the guidance. Have a great weekend!
A lower input impedance reduces the bass frequencies first but can have an effect on a high volume in higher frequency components too. It can result in a distortion of the wave shape that depends on the energy of vibration that the pickup element senses.
If a low impedance input amp sounds better, turn down the bass control on a higher impedance amp.
Also the Realist is one of the bad pickups for me. For the same position I prefer a Shadow NFX, for a contact mic I like my AKG C411 with the preamp better than the Ehrlund.
Did't check the Ischell, my used AKG was so cheap and good for me that I don't feel the need for another contact mic. But I use the Faber-Castell putty with the AKG, not the AKG putty.
If a low impedance input amp sounds better, turn down the bass control on a higher impedance amp.
Also the Realist is one of the bad pickups for me. For the same position I prefer a Shadow NFX, for a contact mic I like my AKG C411 with the preamp better than the Ehrlund.
Did't check the Ischell, my used AKG was so cheap and good for me that I don't feel the need for another contact mic. But I use the Faber-Castell putty with the AKG, not the AKG putty.
Just make sure you've covered all your basses regarding their return
policies and shipping costs. If you got stuck keeping that pickup, it could possibly be a tough one to sell on Talkbass. I distinctly remember one sitting in the TB classifides for many
months. Not sure about using a mic
alone, are you intending to mix it with the Realist?
Your refering to the Meyer gooseneck mic? They advertise satisfaction guarantee on every thing they sell. Emailed them for the terms. Say, correct me if I'm wrong, but I expect you meant Line Audio CM3 not CM6. Regardless, reviews do suggest the CM3 is both, a great preformer and very affordable. And I need more mics for my studio. So I'm going to buy a matched pair for $240 (total). Also waiting for unpublished details before I buy. I'm getting mine from Belgium (highly regarded seller) via EBay with some trepidation. Where did you get yours?
