Double Bass Ron Carter/Footprints, what's going on during turnaround??

[PostBop]

I have listened to the Miles Smiles recording of Footprints about a thousand times and can't tell what on earth is going on with Carter's bass line under that turnaround:

[ Emin / / ][ Eb9 Dmin Dbmin ]

Any ideas how to walk through this? Has anyone figured this out or know where I can find a transcription?

Thanks

 

[Stick_Player]

what's going on during turnaround??

Playin' the changes.

I am guessing that you are referring to the section where the bass breaks away from the ostinato.

You don't have the right chords.

They are more like: || F#m7(b5) F7(+5) | E7(b5) A7(-5) ||

I say "more like", because there are tons of alterations or extensions that can be used. Sounds like Carter is exploring a lot of them.

Don't know if there are any transcriptions.

 

[PostBop]

You don't have the right chords.

They are more like: || F#m7(b5) F7(+5) | E7(b5) A7(-5) ||

This is it, I could hear it but wasn't quite sure exact progression, thanks. The sheet music I have is apparently fake.

 

[Stick_Player]

The sheet music I have is apparently fake.

If you have the "Real Book" changes, they are wrong.

Glad you have 'better' info, now.

Some very good bass work on those changes.

 

[J. Montgomery]

Thats for asking, and thanks to those with the answers. I was also wondering about those changes recently at a jam; I knew something didn't jive.

 

[andy6126]

I just need confirmation...In Footprints, when it switches from C-7 to F-7, I hear the F-7 bars' bass line starting on C, not F, as my guitarist swears he hears, what is it?

thanks

 

[Stick_Player]

I just need confirmation...In Footprints, when it switches from C-7 to F-7, I hear the F-7 bars' bass line starting on C, not F, as my guitarist swears he hears, what is it?

thanks

C.

Carter plays up and back down in fourths > C, F, Bb, Eb, Bb, F, C, when the chord is Fm7.

There maybe a few places where he plays F (first) - I don't remember.

 

[smeet]

I just need confirmation...In Footprints, when it switches from C-7 to F-7, I hear the F-7 bars' bass line starting on C, not F, as my guitarist swears he hears, what is it?

thanks

You're right, he's wrong.

 

[Tom Lane]

C.

Carter plays up and back down in fourths > C, F, Bb, Eb, Bb, F, C, when the chord is Fm7.

There maybe a few places where he plays F (first) - I don't remember.

This is how I hear the tune before the bridge, but for the bridge, I agree that Carter plays different patterns at different times, that I transcribed as
CMaj7b5/B to EbMaj7b5/D to EMaj7#11 to AbMaj7b5/G. The chords are so vague that many different interpretations are valid, IMO, but I clearly heard this bassline. I also clearly heard the fourths for the F portion of the A section. Hope that helps. The RB on this tune is almost certainly a gross approximation and generally incorrect. A rush to interpret the actual harmony that serves the serious student poorly. As one of my teachers commented, *fake books are for when you don't know the tune*.

 

[oliebrice]

one of the most informative bits of transcription you can ever do is take down what RC plays on the turnaround of each chorus of Footprints - a masterclass in substitutions

 

[tkozal]

This has been discussed on many sites many times. Eric Kloss taught me the D/Db changes years ago. He learned this when he had Herbie Hancock on a session for one of his albums. Steve Kimock the guitar player on the gear page once said he discussed this with Alphonso Johnson, who he had hired for his band. Alphonso played with Wayne in WR and in Shorter's solo band. He said it would be different every night, and would often be discussed, but sometimes NOT discussed.

Shorter's bio has a copy of the LOC lead sheet which shows F#-9. B+9+5. E7+9, A+5+9+11

When they play this tune fast, its really open.

 

[Stick_Player]

Not to bore, or rehash something already known...

Footprints is based on a Minor 12-bar Blues.

The harmony in measures 9 and 10, usually, would be || bVI7 | V7 ||. In C minor, that would be || Ab7 | G7 ||.

The Tritone substitutions then are || D7 | Db7 ||. These are the changes in the Real Book.

The next level of "Chord Substitution" takes this curious road, where we are seeing several versions.

|| F#m7(b5) F7(+5) | E7(b5) A7(-5) ||

|| F#-9 B+9+5 | E7+9 A+5+9+11 ||

A few Invalid Link Removed I found:

|| F7+11 E7+9 | D7(alt.) G7+5 ||

|| F#m11(b5) F13+11 | E7(alt.) A7(alt.) ||

I'd say, just make sure the Substitutions can support the original Melody.

 

[Tom Lane]

Not to bore, or rehash something already known...

Footprints is based on a Minor 12-bar Blues.

The harmony in measures 9 and 10, usually, would be || bVI7 | V7 ||. In C minor, that would be || Ab7 | G7 ||.

The Tritone substitutions then are || D7 | Db7 ||. These are the changes in the Real Book.

The next level of "Chord Substitution" takes this curious road, where we are seeing several versions.

|| F#m7(b5) F7(+5) | E7(b5) A7(-5) ||

|| F#-9 B+9+5 | E7+9 A+5+9+11 ||

A few Invalid Link Removed I found:

|| F7+11 E7+9 | D7(alt.) G7+5 ||

|| F#m11(b5) F13+11 | E7(alt.) A7(alt.) ||

I'd say, just make sure the Substitutions can support the original Melody.

Very well said, IMO.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

This was the band that started to venture into very free and open territory and I always hear this tune as a kind of contrast between a quite rigid ostinato bass line and then a section that is free, but descends vaguely chromatically - it's like we let go of the shackles at that point..?

 

[tinyd]

In John Goldsby's "The Jazz Bass Book" he covers Footprints in the Ron Carter chapter - there are transcriptions of some of the turnarounds in there from what I remember.

 

[sonix]

wayne shorter plays this with esperanza spalding at the end of this interview

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[gerry grable]

And another one.



Invalid Link Removed

 

[Don Kasper]

holy s**t.

Wayne quotes "Rock A Bye, Baby" and "Oleo"...
FWIW - John "Pass-the-Shushi" plays the "F#-B-E-A" turnaround, if you're keeping score.

 

[Don Kasper]

Shorter's bio has a copy of the LOC lead sheet which shows F#-9. B+9+5. E7+9, A+5+9+11

tkozal,
Despite what may have been on the lead sheet at the session, Herbie plays the following turnaround,(consistently):

F#min9 b5 // B7#9+5 // E7(natural 9, 13, #11) // A7#9+5.

On the Original-


I wonder if there are any "alternate takes" from this session that will someday be released...
Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[pnchad]

these are the best threads - can get a bunch of perspectives sic alternates