• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Room acoustics newb - wall material choices

TTA

TTA

Jun 10, 2021
2,283
4,548
#1
Building a 24x48 ft (heated) garage and the space will have my bass / bamd setup.

likely plywood walls to start and i want them finished/covered (to mount things).

went down the internet rabbit hole of calculations, bass traps, etc.

any advice on material options to cover the walls? plywood would be a good choice, but i want nice finishing. starting with sound adsorbing foam would be too dark, but are there options like felt tiles that might be not insane price, but allow me to benefit from adsorptive properties of plywood?

vs trusscore that would make a high freq boom box but give me the look i want.

open to ideas. i would figure out my other needs later once my bass gear is in the room.
 
#2
My advice is always to address low end first, likely with corner traps in the vertical wall-wall corners. Once you’ve done that, stop, use the room a bit and listen critically to what occurs in the room for your intended use case. Make decisions based on that, not before you’ve spent time in the space.

TTA said:
but allow me to benefit from adsorptive properties of plywood?
Click to expand...
Plywood has functionally zero absorption.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mighty Thumb, DirtDog, Stylee Mousse and 2 others
#3
silky smoove said:
My advice is always to address low end first, likely with corner traps in the vertical wall-wall corners. Once you’ve done that, stop, use the room a bit and listen critically to what occurs in the room for your intended use case. Make decisions based on that, not before you’ve spent time in the space.


Plywood has functionally zero absorption.
Click to expand...
any guidance for bass traps width vs room size? is there a rule of thumb? most products are for small rooms. i can have custom frames made which i can fill with rockwool for example.
 
#4
I’ve had very good results using kits from Primeacoustic. They are basically 1/2” yellow spun fibreglass sheets beveled and covered in attractive cloth.
For a space your size you might consider 4x8 sized sheets and cover them yourself along with one of their London kits.
As for bass traps, the 2’x4’ ones I have experience with work great in rooms roughly half your size. I suspect they would work just as well in a bigger room depending on the ceiling height.
The Primeacoustic site is a good resource to explore as they show lots of examples and nice pics of some very pricey installs.
I’ve always invested in second hand thick curtains to hang across and/or bunch in the corners of the rear or live end of the room as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tosh
#5
silky smoove said:
My advice is always to address low end first, likely with corner traps in the vertical wall-wall corners. Once you’ve done that, stop, use the room a bit and listen critically to what occurs in the room for your intended use case. Make decisions based on that, not before you’ve spent time in the space.


Plywood has functionally zero absorption.
Click to expand...
well yes and no. it depends on the frequency. it is no replacement for proper materials but it is better than some wall material.

IMG_7918.png



IMG_7919.png


IMG_7920.png


it can help. a bit with the lows and low mids actually.

but part of me wonders about covering the walls with fiberglass board for example.
 
#6
TTA said:
any guidance for bass traps width vs room size? is there a rule of thumb? most products are for small rooms. i can have custom frames made which i can fill with rockwool for example.
Click to expand...
The bigger the trap the better it will work. Fill with OC703 rather than Rockwool for higher performance. OC703 comes in 2' and 4' wide panel varieties, so your frames should be built to fit those sizes. Alternatively, build a superchunk style trap using pink fluffy fiberglass for a high performance trap that's unfortunately a pain to build since you have to consider material compression over time.

TTA said:
it can help. a bit with the lows and low mids actually.
Click to expand...
It won't. It's a hard reflective surface. Any benefits over other hard reflective surfaces will be academic. On paper they may suggest better performance, but once you screw a hard flat surface of any type onto the structure, you're creating a reflection point. If you RTA'd a room with drywall, then tore out all the drywall and replaced it with plywood and RTA'd it again you'd likely get different results, but they would likely not be different enough to merit choosing one over the other for purely acoustic reasons. Use the wall material that makes the most sense for the building and then apply acoustic treatments accordingly. Is sound isolation a concern in addition to reflection characteristics? If so, you can't do better than drywall for this application.
 
#7
silky smoove said:
The bigger the trap the better it will work. Fill with OC703 rather than Rockwool for higher performance. OC703 comes in 2' and 4' wide panel varieties, so your frames should be built to fit those sizes. Alternatively, build a superchunk style trap using pink fluffy fiberglass for a high performance trap that's unfortunately a pain to build since you have to consider material compression over time.


It won't. It's a hard reflective surface. Any benefits over other hard reflective surfaces will be academic. On paper they may suggest better performance, but once you screw a hard flat surface of any type onto the structure, you're creating a reflection point. If you RTA'd a room with drywall, then tore out all the drywall and replaced it with plywood and RTA'd it again you'd likely get different results, but they would likely not be different enough to merit choosing one over the other for purely acoustic reasons. Use the wall material that makes the most sense for the building and then apply acoustic treatments accordingly. Is sound isolation a concern in addition to reflection characteristics? If so, you can't do better than drywall for this application.
Click to expand...
seems like fiberglass board for the win.

i am a simple man with simple understanding, but it feels like the answer is a lot of 2 inch oc703 boards made into thicker 6 inch + for corners to catch lows, and maybe intermittently thicker in places for mids. cover with acoustic fabric for looks

maybe cheap acoustic tiles for the cieling, and the odd area rugs and furniture placed well for the floors.

sound about right? maybe some diffusers on the wall behind the cabs. extra adsorption on initial bounce points (forget term), and wall opposite speakers.
 
#8
TTA said:
i am a simple man with simple understanding, but it feels like the answer is a lot of 2 inch oc703 boards made into thicker 6 inch + for corners to catch lows, and maybe intermittently thicker in places for mids.
Click to expand...
Be careful with thickness of OC703. At a certain point its cross-sectional density within the corner becomes too high and low frequency absorption performance drops, which is why a superchunk style trap uses lower density pink fluffy fiberglass insulation as opposed to a more rigid option like OC703, Knauf or even rockwool. Buy a copy of Rod Gervais' book to get a better understanding of how all of this works. It'll be a small added cost to your overall project, but one that is absolutely invaluable.

TTA said:
maybe cheap acoustic tiles for the cieling, and the odd area rugs and furniture placed well for the floors.
Click to expand...
As stated above, treating the corners is almost entirely risk free and is generally always a good idea. Anything beyond that should be done after you've been in the space using it for a bit to better understand what's actually needed. You won't know if you need ceiling treatments until you experience in the room. Rugs are generally a good choice to help with things like the immediate slap back from the bottom of a snare drum, for instance, but they're more there for the utility of having a soft surface to stand on rather than a hard floor. Make decisions based on the use case for the space first, and then look at the acoustic characteristics relative to those use-based choices.

TTA said:
maybe some diffusers on the wall behind the cabs
Click to expand...
Diffusion is for mids and highs. Placing a diffuser behind a cab where it will be interacting mostly with low frequency content is not a good use for that type of product. Also, keep in mind that the task of a diffuser is to generally spread out higher frequencies and keep them from being so directional. I've been in small spaces where the addition of diffusers did nothing. Be sure your space is big enough to benefit from diffusion and that it's actually needed. In my experience building my own space and consulting on many others, diffusion is almost always the least important form of acoustic treatment that's needed, but people always want to include it because it looks cool.

TTA said:
extra adsorption on initial bounce points (forget term)
Click to expand...
First reflection point
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTA
#9
TTA said:
Building a 24x48 ft (heated) garage …[snip]…
went down the internet rabbit hole of calculations, bass traps, etc.
Click to expand...

Must not have gotten *too* deep down that rabbit hole of calculations if you’re still planning on building a room whose length & width are even multiples of one another. Hope your ceilings aren’t 8’ high also!

Make it 23’ x 49’ x 9’
You’ll thank me later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DirtDog, hbarcat and TTA
#10
Bob_Ross said:
Must not have gotten *too* deep down that rabbit hole of calculations if you’re still planning on building a room whose length & width are even multiples of one another. Hope your ceilings aren’t 8’ high also!

Make it 23’ x 49’ x 9’
You’ll thank me later.
Click to expand...
the concrete is down for the basic footprint so no i did not go down the rabbit hole soon enough, but i read about the issue. we cant be experts at everything i guess. In my defence i got my self education on solar needs up to snuff though so we will be quite optimal there. 10 foot ceilings.

Or maybe i am a master of all things. 48 x24 are external dimensions. so we are looking at closer to 23x47 internal. with. more more like 22 ft 11 inches, by 46 ft, 11 inches, give or take (likely take).

sadly i am learning that not being an expert at all things is costly when it comes to acoustics. same for acoustic treating large spaces.

i while back i ran the room dimensions in a calculator and it advised optimal speaker and listener placement. it gave me a list of problem frequencies but i dont yet understand how to interpret it.

i am aware to start with placement of cab/listener, and treat to need. But cosmetically, i will be mounting bikes to the wall and will have them backed by fiberglass board wrapped in acoustically transparent material.

plan b i continue to use my home finished basement and use headphones at night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob_Ross
#11
silky smoove said:
Be careful with thickness of OC703. At a certain point its cross-sectional density within the corner becomes too high and low frequency absorption performance drops, which is why a superchunk style trap uses lower density pink fluffy fiberglass insulation as opposed to a more rigid option like OC703, Knauf or even rockwool. Buy a copy of Rod Gervais' book to get a better understanding of how all of this works. It'll be a small added cost to your overall project, but one that is absolutely invaluable.


As stated above, treating the corners is almost entirely risk free and is generally always a good idea. Anything beyond that should be done after you've been in the space using it for a bit to better understand what's actually needed. You won't know if you need ceiling treatments until you experience in the room. Rugs are generally a good choice to help with things like the immediate slap back from the bottom of a snare drum, for instance, but they're more there for the utility of having a soft surface to stand on rather than a hard floor. Make decisions based on the use case for the space first, and then look at the acoustic characteristics relative to those use-based choices.


Diffusion is for mids and highs. Placing a diffuser behind a cab where it will be interacting mostly with low frequency content is not a good use for that type of product. Also, keep in mind that the task of a diffuser is to generally spread out higher frequencies and keep them from being so directional. I've been in small spaces where the addition of diffusers did nothing. Be sure your space is big enough to benefit from diffusion and that it's actually needed. In my experience building my own space and consulting on many others, diffusion is almost always the least important form of acoustic treatment that's needed, but people always want to include it because it looks cool.


First reflection point
Click to expand...
lot to digest. thanks!
 
#12
TTA said:
i while back i ran the room dimensions in a calculator and it advised optimal speaker and listener placement. it gave me a list of problem frequencies but i dont yet understand how to interpret it.
Click to expand...
For a room that size your best bet will almost certainly be to place your desk centered on one of the 24’ walls with the backs of the speakers as close to the wall as possible without actually touching, and then space them so that their on-axis convergence point occurs about 12-14” behind your head in the listening position. This will raise the quarter and half wavelength cancellation frequencies into a range that’s more easy to treat acoustically. Alternatively you can move the listening position away from the wall to lower those frequencies beyond the working range of the monitors, which is really the optimal strategy sonically, however it usually ends up being 7’ or greater from the wall, so the loss of floor space becomes too big of a compromise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTA
#16
TTA said:

powerful tool but i only see mode freq to 100hz or so. need to play with it more
Click to expand...
It's a good tool, if you know how to use it and what to do with the results to get improved results as compared to just doing common things (treating corners, floors, and first reflection points). Most people don't. I would not overthink it. Treat your corners which is almost always a guaranteed win, fill the space with the things you're going to use, including the rugs and furniture you mentioned earlier, then just chill out for a bit while you use the space and identify what problems you need to solve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTA
#17
Silky has it right:

"I would not overthink it. Treat your corners which is almost always a guaranteed win, fill the space with the things you're going to use, including the rugs and furniture you mentioned earlier, then just chill out for a bit while you use the space and identify what problems you need to solve."

High level acoustic treatment is big $ and science. If you have no need to do that then treat corners, put stuff in and give it a twirl.

Interestingly, a average Joe living room often has decent acoustics for music listening. The balance of hard and soft surfaces (Wall, couch, framed pictures, rugs etc) can work out well without excessive fretting. Taken to a bigger, louder scale a rehearsal space can be good with some sensible arranging and treatment.

So don't let "perfect be the terminator of good"!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTA

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back